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Listen to the podcast (FULL TRANSCRIPT): Level Up is a podcast for anyone interested in improving their leadership skills. The series is designed to help you get to know the leaders of Experian and gain insight into the skills needed to grow your career. You can subscribe to Level Up Leadership on iTunes, Google Play, SoundCloud and Spotify. Most recently, we spoke to Jimmy Cheung, SVP of Technology and Engineering at Experian Consumer Services, North America. Jimmy is also the executive co-sponsor for Experian’s Asian American employee resource group (ERG) and passionate advocate for Experian’s mental health ERG, ASPIRE. Jimmy has worked at Ticketmaster and Live Nation prior to Experian. Here are some takeaways from our conversation with Jimmy: Your EQ—or emotional intelligence—is just as important as your IQ. In some instances, it may hold even more importance. Like Jimmy pointed out, your EQ is what will make you a great leader. Knowing the ins and outs of your profession is important, but can you gather people together with one goal in mind? Do you have the ability to build trust and make meaningful connections with your team? This is where your EQ will make you a great leader. A humble and grateful attitude go a long way. Jimmy’s greatest teacher is his father. He was able to learn how to work hard and persevere by observing the way his immigrant father led and provided for their family. It’s important to remain humble and remember that no job is below or above you. Situational leadership is the way to go. Like Jimmy pointed out, there is no “one size fits all” approach to leading a team. What works for one employee may not work for another. Jimmy believes it isn’t the employee’s job to make sure they fit within their leader’s box, but the leader’s responsibility to make sure their leadership styles can change from person to person. Being able to adapt to change is a big part of leadership. In the age of COVID-19, work looks very different for everyone, and the changes will have a lasting effect on what culture, collaboration and leadership look like post-pandemic. Your ability to adapt to change as a leader is what will decide whether or not your team can thrive in the new normal. We were so happy to have the opportunity to chat with Jimmy for Level Up. Check out interviews with other Experian leaders. Full Transcript Patty: Today we're speaking with Jimmy Cheung, SVP of Technology and Engineering for Experian Consumer Services, North America. Jimmy is also the Executive Co-Sponsor for our Asian American Employee Resource Group here at Experian. Patty: Okay. Jimmy, if you could just start us off by describing your educational and professional background for us and how you got to Experian. Jimmy: Yeah, sure. I graduated from California State University. Both my undergrad and graduate degree in Economics. And it was one of those unfortunate things, so I can definitely relate with the current unemployment picture because when I graduated back in '92, it was one of the worst employment markets of the decade, or even prior decade. So I wasn't able to find any work in the economics world but I was fortunate enough that I was starting to get involved with technology. As I started doing that, I rode the dot-com boom and I went into the text code. So, I've held on to technology for almost... I've been working in this field now for 20-plus years. Jimmy: I came over to Experian because of Joe Manna. Joe Manna was hired by Experian about five years ago and Joe Manna and I have been working together for almost 16 years- Patty: Oh, wow. Jimmy: ... and before that I worked for Joe in two other companies. Both companies in the Event Ticketing industry. We worked at TICKETS.COM and also Live Nation, Ticketmaster. So, that's kind of how I got connected with Experian. Mike: You got your degrees in Econ- Jimmy: Correct. Mike: ... and then what made you shift into the tech space? Jimmy: Well, first of all the availability of jobs. Like I alluded to earlier, when I first graduated... and my focus in economics was in real estate. And unfortunately in the early '80s it was just a really depressed real estate market. So I really had to pivot and adapt to any kind of industry sector that had more job growth. So technology, even in recession seems to be the segment that has the higher job opportunities. So that's when I came into technology and it was serendipitous that I made the transition, really got involved in technology and the dot-com boom. So it just propelled me into more opportunities within technology. Jimmy: And technology is such a dynamic field, there's so many different facets to it. So I really enjoy this segment and the challenges that technology offers. So that would be a SAPP and successful transition for me from economics to... And then I'll be honest, economic training and the cognitive thinking that's required for economics, those skills are very transferable to any industry. Patty: You said that you worked with Joe Manna at a few different companies. Can you speak to some of the leadership qualities in Joe, or even other people around you that have inspired you to be the leader you are today? Jimmy: Sure, sure. So, specifically with Joe, what I really admire in Joe is the ability to be objective. And I always say is Joe's color blind, in good way. He really doesn't care about your race, he doesn't care about your gender, or whatever may be. His focus is on your performance, your ability. And he's given me those qualities consistently in the 16 years that I've worked with him. He's very demanding, you know? Most of you that know Joe, he's extremely demanding in terms of the type of performance and output he wants from his leaders. But he's fair about it. What I like about is his empathy. He's one of those leaders that's really sincere about empathy and it shows. That's one of the qualities, traits I should say, that I really want to adapt from Joe. Jimmy: In terms of other leaders, or other role models I have, I would say one of the strongest, the one that really served me all my life is my father. My father is one of the greatest role models I've ever had. I think some of you are aware that I'm a immigrant to this country. My father had to leave his stores to immigrate us to this country because he knows that by doing that, he could give my sister and I a much better life and a much better opportunity for our career goals. But at his age where that decision needed to be made, he knows that he's not going to be able to have a job, a white collar job of the kind that he had back in Hong Kong. So, he came over here and something I've always noticed in my father is, it doesn't matter if he's the manager of a shoe factory in Hong Kong versus a busboy or a prep chef in the US, he's always the best at that. You know, he's always the best manager, the best busboy- Patty: Right. Jimmy: ... the best prep chef, you know? And he did it with passion and he did it without any kind of bitterness. He never really actually told us about any of that stuff. My dad's always been like lacks emotion. He's all about just his action. So, that's the kind of leader that I aspire to be and sort of that person that I try to be. I feel like that's been one of the strongest influence for me. Patty: Right. You said that your dad knew that he wasn't going to have the same kind of white collar job he would have back in Hong Kong when he moved here, and I know you said he wasn't bitter about it or anything, but did you ever feel a pressure to make it because he gave up so much for his family? And if you did, how did you kind of move past that and make sure you did succeed? Jimmy: Yeah, first of all Patty, definitely. Without a doubt. I mean that pressure was nothing he ever said. It is for me to go to my dad's restaurant, right? Patty: Right. Jimmy: [inaudible 00:10:03] for me to see my dad used to be the king of the factory- Patty: Right. Jimmy: ... where everybody was just admire my dad, praise, really looked at him as a superior to the restaurant busing dishes and I knew just that... I knew what the sacrifices he made. So my sister and I, we applied a lot of pressure on ourselves. And that's not unique in any immigrant. I feel that I will have to say, especially Asian immigrants that's something that's innate in our culture. It's about eating bitter yourself so your offspring can have a better life. And that's just kind of ingrained in generations and generations of our DNA. And yeah, I definitely feel that pressure. Patty: Right. While we're on the topic, I would love to talk about something that you mentioned before and I'm hoping you can explain it to our listeners, but something you said that always resonated with me in the past was, "It's not always about your IQ, sometimes you have to really focus on your EQ." Can you talk a little bit more to that and explain what you meant by that and how someone might be able to kind of intentionally focus on bettering their EQ? Jimmy: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I'm going to use technology as a career as an example. Is that when you first start in technology your IQ, your technical knowledge is very important. That's going to really sort of separate you or distinguish you from the others. Your ability to solve problems, your ability to be creative in terms of the type of coding you're doing or any of the technical tasks you're doing. But as you start advancing up your career ladder you're going to feel a tension where you're going to have to make a choice. Do I want to grow in the managerial aspects of technology? Do I want to stay technical? Jimmy: But if you want to grow in the managerial perspective, meaning that you want to become a director, a vice-president, a CTO... your IQ becomes less important. Your EQ is now the quality, the trait that you're going to be evaluated on. You know it's your ability to be able to claim success, okay, not necessarily using your intelligence but using your emotional intelligence to be able to bring success among others on your team because you can't do it yourself. Patty: Right. Jimmy: So you find in those positions you're really there to be the catalyst to be able to bring success to the company by the results of the group. That's a challenging skill, especially when you think about in technology you've always been graded on your intelligence, your IQ and I think that's where you see a lot of failures, where promotions are done based on those qualities. Then you come into a leadership role and they don't have the emotional intelligence, then all of a sudden, "Wow, this person that used to be a pride as an engineer, they're now barely making it as a director or a- Patty: Right. Jimmy: So I feel that... and it's not just I think that the enterprise is really sort of missed a step there. You look at all the training that most companies provide to their employees, it's really there to increase and augment their IQ or their technical skills or so forth. But you look at how much investment companies make in terms of programs and training to elevate an individual's EQ, it's not there, right? I think Patty was in one of my talks where I talked about McKinsey's, they did a survey. The survey took about, I think almost 10 years for them to do. It measured the business success of companies and what's attributing to that business success. And what they would find is that 85% of business success is attributed to EQ, not IQ. Jimmy: But you think about what I said about business investment in training, you have probably the opposite. 80% of that is geared toward the IQ and technical knowledge. So I think that pendulum or that scale really needs to be tipped. I think Experian is starting to really realize that and you're seeing that through our Master Course and some of the High Performance Training. We're starting now to really understand the power of EQ and it's encouraging to see the company's making the right investment in terms of training it's human capital. Patty: Right. When we first talked about this, it was in the context of the Asian community being more susceptible to this problem than most just because we were raised to be like, "Get straight A's, you're going to be tapped on the shoulder. You'll be chosen to move up. You don't need to do anything else, just work really hard, right?" But I feel like that's an issue beyond Asian community. So like you said, in technology there's a huge focus on IQ and whatnot. So this is something anyone could benefit from. I'm wondering if you have any tips for people who are trying to expand their EQ, any intentional things they can do to be better at that? Jimmy: Yeah, I think the good news about EQ versus IQ is that you're born with your IQ. It's very hard to be able to go from a 100 to 260 on a Mensa exam. But the good news with EQ is that you can absolutely learn to grow your EQ. What I would start of with is that there's a lot of different literature that's out there that addresses EQ. I would first go to Amazon Books or whatever may be, anywhere and start just searching for any kind of material related to EQ. Then you're going to find a whole lot of references on things like situational leadership. Things like that. All of those kind of things that would be a part of that EQ framework. So I would say start with that. Jimmy: And look also at Experian's training site has a lot of different curriculums or a lot of different classes. There is a category that's specifically on topics and subjects like EQ. Patty: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Jimmy: So I think those two, you don't really have to go out and search expensive classes or anything like that. I think that it's more valuable to really take just a couple of those books or a training and the key is start practicing them. You know? Patty: Right. Jimmy: And it's easy. Some of the things it literally is, they call it 1-Second of Success, it's what the athletes use. You can define as when you're listening to people or when you're ready to say something, the 1-Second of Success means that pause for a second and then speak. Because a lot of times we [inaudible 00:18:29] there's even a principle about you feel is that you know your senses, what you touch and what you process, right? That hits a certain part of your brain behind your emotions. Your cognitive, your processing is behind the emotional element of it. So if you take a second, pause a second, a lot of times you may not say the things that you almost said. So someone cuts you off- Patty: Right. Jimmy: ... you want to do something immediately. Pause for a second. Look around the environment. Maybe there's a reason why that person cuts you off, because he's trying to dodge from hitting a pedestrian or something like that. So those are the kind of things that I could speak at you by just the literature and the training out there. And start practicing it and getting good at it. And I've been doing that for 20 years of my life and I still have a lot of areas that I can improve on. Mike: Jimmy, how about if you just share a little bit about maybe some of those EQ skills you worked on or helped others as you've mentored people around EQ? Jimmy: One of the strongest I feel that's a tool in my EQ tool belt is the situational leadership. What situational leadership means is that there's actually a very empirical model that's been developed on this subject area, where you assess an individual's technical aptitude and their ability to perform. And based on that criteria, you apply certain type of leadership quality. For example, if someone was starting in the business, you might have to provide a more directive type of management style versus someone that's been here for a while, that knows what he's doing, that has desire to execute. That's more of a delegation rather than management style, right? Jimmy: The key there is you don't want to have those size pitfall. I think that's the biggest hurdle or pitfall that all managers get into is, they always think there's [inaudible 00:21:04]. "Susan's okay with my management style, why isn't Ralph okay with my management style?" Patty: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Jimmy: So it's not up to the employees to change their style to accommodate your leadership style. Patty: Right. Jimmy: As a leader it's up to you to understand that particular individual's aptitude and desire to execute. Then you go back to nurture about, you say "Oh, wow. I need to be more tutorial. I need to be more a mentor and coaching style. Oh, this guy all I need to do is delegate because he already knows everything, right? Because it's important because if you become too sort of tutorial to someone that's been here for five or ten years, dang you're going to have issues all right? So it's not like different strokes for different folks. It's different strokes for the same folk depending on where they are in their career development or their knowledge development. Mike: Jimmy, I think when you're managing a very small team, you can spend a lot of time getting to know your team, you could have great one-on-ones and that could be very helpful when you're managing someone because I know what motivates them just because you get to know them intimately. But that becomes really, really hard as your teams get bigger and I'm wondering how does that situational leadership work as it gets more difficult as you have more people to manage? Jimmy: Yeah, you got to be able to scale. So what you start out with, I mean even in my role right now, I have close to 140 employees. But where I start off with is, start with your directs and then skip level first. What I mean by that is that if you haven't as a leader [inaudible 00:23:01] size have had one-on-ones, at least one. And if it's through directs, I would those need to be at least monthly, right? I would start off this that population first and really get to know your directs and also your skip level directs. Once you do that, then what you could do is you could probably even get deeper lower down the ladder and just try to do like I'm going to pick once a month, I'm going to spot, I'm going to pick some of the individual contributors that stand out right? You can't do them all. Jimmy: It's like any survey, it's about sampling, right? So if you do this consistently and you do this, say "Hey, you know what? I'm going to talk an individual contributor, at least one every month," you're going to get a good understanding across the board how well the managers are managing those individuals. Then you have a group of more frequent one-on-ones with your directs and your skip level. And understand how they're growing and where they are in their vocational maturity ladder. And then you are going to see, "Okay, you know what? Start talking to them, you can understand how your skip level employees, how they're interacting in their grow ups. They're managing, right? And then you kind of get a snapshot of those guys are managing those people. Jimmy: Then once you do that, then you've got to provide that feedback group back to your directs. Because I am a firm believer in the process and the same with man is, I will talk to my directs and have them execute the optimizations and the improvement based on the feedback that I gather from them, and then I will keep them accountable, right? To themselves, based on that feedback. What I expect them to do is make sure that A, this counts, their directs because I'm going to be checking on them. Because I tell them up front, "Hey, I have skip levels with all my employees," so they know. Mike: I haven't heard that term, skip level, before. Patty: Yeah, me neither. That's so cool. Jimmy: Yeah. It's a pretty common term. Yeah, and I was just saying before we dropped, I was just saying that it's amazing that when you tell your directs that, "Hey, I'm going to have skip level one-on-ones with your employees. Even if you haven't had ever done one, they all of a sudden are a lot more conscientious and they're a lot more focused on making sure that A, you know what? Some of the things that I'm talking about, Jimmy's talking about in these meetings and I'm going to make sure I'm communicating now just because I'm spot checking, right? I mean, that's the whole idea, right? Jimmy: So it works. I mean look, these are all the things that I've seen other great managers and other people at Experian that are doing this. Patty: I would love to know what situational leadership looks like to you in the age of COVID-19 and how you're overseeing your team and the skip levels now. Now that we're all working from home. Jimmy: Yeah, I have to say definite Patty, that I'm a very people kind of a person. And why I say that is I love to interact with people face-to-face. Patty: Yeah. Jimmy: I'm a face-to-face kind of a person. So, this kind of a COVID environment it's definitely taken some of my ability to do that. But it didn't sort of remove my time commitment to meet with those individuals. I still do the one-on-ones, but now I'm doing it through WebEx, and unfortunately sometime it's audio only because the video is not working very well. Patty: Right. Jimmy: And even right now, we're not getting a lot of the energy, the [inaudible 00:28:32] and the benefits of being in-person. But you still got to do it. You know that our work environment in COVID may not ever go back to what it was before, right? We're going to have to adapt to some modifications to the way we used to work. So I would say that we need to look at ways to engage, that the meetings that we have now and at the same time that shouldn't completely keep you from realizing who it is and methods like situational leadership, those type of tools and practices in your tool belt. Mike: Yeah, I told Patty, I love being around people. I love seeing Patty in the office. I really miss those times, because there's so much happens that all are non-verbal communication and just being in the same room. You know, be able to shake a hand... I miss all that. But I even think about how we're talking about when we do return to the office during COVID, we'll all have masks and that is also hindering. Even when I go to the market, I'm smiling but the people have no idea I'm smiling. I can't get a sense of, is this person happy or are they sad? That's going to be the hard thing I think when we do come to the office and we're all wearing face masks. Jimmy: Yeah. Mike: I'm going to miss that one a ton inoperable. Jimmy: Yeah. Yeah, I'm with you. I'm with you. We're going to have to find ways. I think we're going to have to find ways to sort of compensate for that lack of telemetry. Yeah, and I'm sure there's going to have to be some kind of dine-in options. Maybe some of that talk will have to be done over food in a restaurant or something like that because you know you can't have a face mask when you're eating. Patty: Right. Right. Jimmy: [crosstalk 00:30:48] Yeah, so we're going to have to be creative. Patty: I think what's interesting is that this whole work from home thing has, I don't know about you guys but I feel like it's forcing people to be more vulnerable with each other. Like when you ask each other "How are you doing?" You don't get the, "Oh, I'm fine," like water cooler talk. It's more like, "Oh, I'm having a hard time working from home." Or, "Things are hard and I'm like trying to cope." So I feel like even if there might be that barrier when we get back, I feel like enough of us have been vulnerable with each other that we'll have that connection when we get back to the office hopefully. I know, that's me looking at the silver lining, right? Mike: Yeah. Jimmy: Yeah, I agree, Patty because I have to say this is one of the rare video conferencing sessions that I've done where I'm so well dressed. Normally, I have a tee shirt/pajama top, you know? Mike: Yeah. Jimmy: And my hair is like everywhere. So that I actually put some hair gel for this particular session. So I have to agree with you, when you start seeing people in that type of condition so to speak, you almost feel like you're now sort of beyond just having a professional relationship, right? You now have personal relationship with these folks. You're seeing them, to your point, sort of this vulnerability, very non-businesslike sort of décor and appearance. Sometimes I see dogs running around. Patty: Yeah. Jimmy: Their kids are running around and it really puts a touch of personalization and we're all sort of humans now, right? Even Ty. You know even Ty's dog's out of control. I think we're all sort of now in touch and on the level, I think parity- Mike: Yeah. Jimmy: ... that we're on. Patty: Right. Mike: That's right. We always talk about "Bring your whole self to work," and that is definitely the case right now. We are all- Patty: Bringing our whole self to home. Mike: Yeah. Yeah. Jimmy: But now it's more like "Bring your whole home to work." Patty: Yeah, yeah. Jimmy: It's not even your whole self, it's like your entourage and animals. Patty: Right, bring your pet. Bring everyone else who's quarantining with you. Mike: Like you were saying, I'm finding I will jump on a call with somebody and normally that call will be like a couple minutes with a friend just to catch up really quickly. Now it's turning into what I thought would be a five minute call, sometimes an hour, hour and a half. Patty: Right. Jimmy: Yeah, right? Right. Yeah. I'm definitely seeing more group interactions now because it's so much easier to get a Zoom or a group virtual happy hour through WebEx or whatever the collaboration platform is. Now I'm seeing that not only with work but with my families. I'm seeing more of how the COVID situation actually has brought more of these type of touchpoints or interactions with families. More than used to, where the only option before was I need to make a drive all the way out to my parents or my in-laws house or wherever. Now it's like everybody's okay getting together ad hoc and across the country over video conferencing. So I think there's definitely some positive aspects of this in terms of bringing people closer, not only at work but with families. Patty: Mike and I have talked a lot about what work will look like once we come back. It feels like work from home will be a big option for a lot of people now just because we've seen the capabilities of working from home. I would love to know personally for you, what do you think about your leadership style will be different because of COVID-19 once we return to whatever the normal world will look like? Jimmy: Yeah. I have to say that the large in-person meetings are definitely going to have to change. They're going to probably have to modify and that is a very powerful tool and capability for a lot of leaders. To just be able to have all hands, the VP stand-ups every week where you have a large group of folks that you're interacting in-person to go over all of the different initiatives and what's going on with the company and all that. So, that's [inaudible 00:36:04] but I still don't know how it was with the surrogate for that is going to be at this point. But that's one aspect I think is definitely going to have to change. Jimmy: And even smaller meetings, when you have to maintain that social distancing and all of that, I think it's going to affect people in terms of their willingness to want to do in-person meetings. So, I think the good thing is that right now, we're getting all the practices in, in terms of how do we do meetings virtually and so forth. I think more and more we're just going to have to continue doing what we're doing virtually. And in certain cases where you just absolutely need to have that in-person interaction, you're going to need to do those meetings, but I feel like they are going to be a lot fewer of that kind of interaction. Mike: I want to ask you about being in the office, it's easy just to stop by somebody's desk and just say "Hi," and just keep nurturing certain relationships. Right now I'm finding that to be sometimes more difficult because not everyone wants to Face

Listen or download the podcast: Every week, we talk about important data and analytics topics with data science leaders from around the world on Facebook Live.  You can subscribe to the DataTalk podcast on iTunes,  Google Play, Stitcher, SoundCloud, and Spotify. DataTalk features data science leaders at MIT, Caltech, United Nations, Gartner, Twitter, Salesforce, Amazon, UBER, IBM, LinkedIn, Spotify, Dow Jones and dozens of other startups and top data companies. In this week’s #DataTalk, we chat with Lynette Kebirungi, Turbine Aerothermal Engineer at Rolls-Royce, about her academic background, love of physics, and career journey. We also discuss: Dealing with Adversity & Developing a Fighter Mentality Closing the Gender Gap & Supporting Girls in STEM Careers How to Handle Self-Doubt & the Comparison Trap Developing a Growth Mindset During COVID-19 Finding Mentors & Approaching Senior Leaders Check out the full interview on YouTube. About Lynette Kebirungi Lynette Kebirungi is listed as one of the top 20 women working in data by Women in Data UK. She's also Uganda's second female Aerospace Engineer. She earned her Masters of Science degree in Advanced Aeronautical Engineering at Imperial College London and Bachelor's of Engineering, Aerospace Engineering at the University of Liverpool. She was born and raised in Kampala City, Uganda in eastern Africa. Her research and interests are focused on the field of fluid/aero dynamics and currently working as a Turbine Aerothermal Engineer at Rolls Royce. She also serves as the chair of the African Caribbean Professional Network that champions diversity and helps create a more inclusive environment at Rolls Royce. She also volunteers for the International Christian Churches as an administrator on the leadership team of the Birmingham branch. She is passionate about empowering young people to have access to great education, improving health care and poverty alleviation. Learn more about her background and award from Women in Data UK. Follow her on LinkedIn.  

As the COVID-19 pandemic continues to disrupt lives across the globe, fraudsters continue to take advantage of the vulnerable situation. The opportunistic nature of fraudsters means that times of crisis and pandemics open up additional breeding grounds for fraud and identity theft. Our latest CrossCore® release has never been more relevant for businesses than right now. Confidently recognizing consumers and safeguarding digital transactions is always a difficult balance – but now more critical than ever. With CrossCore, businesses can limit fraud losses and reduce unnecessary customer friction, at a time when safe and convenient access to financial services is essential.  This new version of CrossCore, our integrated digital identity and fraud risk platform, combines risk-based authentication, identity proofing, and fraud detection into a single, cloud-based platform. This means that businesses have the capabilities and technology they need to rapidly respond to an ever-changing environment. With flexible decisioning orchestration, advanced analytics, and pre-integrated identity and fraud services, businesses can make real-time risk decisions throughout the customer lifecycle. And they can do all of this through simple self-service.  We know there’s no silver bullet when it comes to fighting fraud, which is why we continue to develop our curated partner ecosystem. This gives companies access to all the technology and capabilities they need, in one place – whether it be Experian’s, our partners’, or their own. We combine this with advanced analytics and our own rich data assets plus a built-in strategy design and enhanced workflow giving fraud and compliance teams more control to adjust strategies based on evolving threats. This helps improve efficiency and reduce operational costs.   Updates to the new version include the ability for clients to submit dynamic API request payloads, apply progressive risk assessments, apply parallel logic, enable self-service workflow configurations, and provide an online business intelligence (BI) module to view transactional volume reports. These updates will give CrossCore users a simpler way to manage complex orchestration; faster more scalable performance; and key performance indicators in near real-time, all while enabling a personalized and seamless experience for their true customers.   More than 250 clients worldwide use CrossCore today, including capabilities from our third-party partners. To start leveraging best-in-class, pre-integrated identity and fraud services through simple self-service learn more about the Experian CrossCore platform.  

Today kicks off Asian Pacific American Heritage Month. The Experian Asian American Employee Resource Group (ERG) is proud to recognize this special month by sharing how Experian is supporting a national campaign to address the adversity facing some of our most at-risk communities right now. Experian has joined ten non-profits and more than 80 companies from across industries and sectors nationally to support the #AscendTogether action agenda. It includes promoting inclusion, raising awareness of vulnerable groups, denouncing bias, supporting frontline healthcare workers, COVID-19 victims and families, and donating funds and resources to support vulnerable populations and impacted businesses. Led by Pan-Asian leadership nonprofit Ascend, this effort is designed to bring about unity at a time when fear about COVID-19 has led to rise of intolerance and racist acts, particularly against the Asian and Asian-American community. Experian is proud to step up as a leader in our industry to participate in this effort. As executive co-sponsors of Experian’s Asian American ERG, we hope you will join us in our efforts to be a champion for diverse communities, especially during this time. You can learn more about #AscendTogether here. Written by: Dacy Yee, Chief Customer Officer ECS Direct-to-Consumer and Jimmy Cheung, Senior Vice President of Technology and Engineering

Listen to the podcast (FULL TRANSCRIPT): Level Up is a podcast for anyone interested in improving their leadership skills. The series is designed to help you get to know the leaders of Experian and gain insight into the skills needed to grow your career. You can subscribe to Level Up Leadership on iTunes, Google Play, SoundCloud and Spotify. Times are hard navigating life with something we're not very familiar with at all: the COVID-19 pandemic. A lot of us are making drastic changes to our work and home lives, and we know that this can take a toll physically and mentally, so today's episode will be a discussion about ways to cope during this period. We spoke to Amy Priest, Wellbeing Manager for Experian United Kingdom & Ireland. Amy also chairs the Experian Pride Network UK&I and is a founding member of the everyMIND mental health network. Here are some takeaways from our conversation with Amy: Don’t compare yourself to others. It’s important to avoid comparing yourself to others. Some colleagues might thrive (and be more productive), while others might be suffering with less sleep and less energy. It’s unfair to compare your energy levels, productivity and emotional wellbeing with others. It’s okay to feel overwhelmed and to feel like you’re in survival mode. One size does not fit all. Everybody is going through something right now -- and we’re all trying to handle each challenge in our own way. Amy shares that there is never going to a "one size fits all" approach to managing life right now. There is no playbook for how to handle each struggle we go through. It’s important is figure out what works for you and to give yourself grace as you deal with the various struggles you’re facing. S.H.U.S.H. Many of us might know the best way to respond when someone shares their hardships with us. Amy talks with us about how the S.H.U.S.H. acronym can help us: Show you care Have patience Use open questions Say it back and Have courage Remember, you are not expected to provide any type of solution. S.H.U.S.H and try to understand how that person is feeling. Voice your feelings. Amy actively makes a conscious decision to talk about her feelings with others. Talking about our feelings and emotional struggles with trusted friends and colleagues can help others feel comfortable to share their struggles, too.After all, just because we aren’t physically going to work, doesn’t mean we should stop bringing our whole selves to our work. We were so happy to have the opportunity to chat with Amy about ways to manage our emotions in this episode of Level Up. Check out interviews with other Experian leaders. Full Transcript Mike:                Hey, everybody. Welcome to the Level Up Leadership Podcast. My name is Mike Delgado. Patty:               My name is Patty Guevara. Mike:                This podcast is designed to help you get to know the leaders here at Experian and also gain insight into the leadership skills and traits needed to grow our careers. Patty:               In this podcast, we'll talk mentorship, career navigation, handling rejection, work-life balance, mental health, diversity and inclusion, and so much more. Mike:                A lot of our recordings are done through WebEx, so sometimes the audio quality is not perfect. We apologize. We'll get better in time, but we hope you enjoy the show. Patty: Today we're speaking with Amy Priest, a wellbeing manager for Experian United Kingdom in Ireland. Amy also shares the Experian Pride Network and is a founding member of the Every Mind Mental Health Network. Patty: So, Amy, you're a wellbeing manager for Experian UK&I. Can you tell us a little bit more about that, because I feel like I haven't actually seen that title a lot. Amy: Yeah, sure. So the actual role was introduced to Experian UK&I in 2018. It came about in about July time, I think, of that year. And I joined the position in January, 2019, so I've been just in the place for about over a year now. That has definitely flown by. Amy: But in terms of the kind of remit of the wellbeing manager, it is quite far-reaching. There's definitely no one day that's the same, and I think from what I can kind of gather, is that you ... there's a bit of a structure and strategy that you stick to, and you decide at the start the year. Okay, we want to focus on physical wellbeing, mental health, financial wellbeing, lifestyle wellbeing, all of those different areas. Amy: We kind of say, okay, throughout the year, we'll talk about this, we'll talk about nutrition and sleep and resilience and what mental health looks like, and have all these fantastic campaigns. And then you kind of get hit by a pandemic, and it's okay, all systems go. What do our people need? They need wellbeing support right now. And what does that wellbeing support look like? Amy: So you quickly ... planning as much on the internet as you can do. You get in as many resources together, you're having thousands of conversations with people all over this list to see what the need is, where that attention needs to be, what support needs to be available to people. How do we keep connected? All of these different conversations that we're having right now to try and get the support where people need it the most. Amy: So yeah, lots to kind of keep me busy, certainly. I'm one of two wellbeing managers at Experian, and we're both very, very passionate about supporting our people and working together to try and cover all of what we just discussed, yeah, to try and bring that to life at Experian. Mike: Amy, how are you managing with all this? Because you are trying to take care of wellbeing of so many employees, providing all these different services, letting people know how they can get help. In the meantime, you also are being impacted by this pandemic. I'm kind of curious, how are you managing through all this? Amy: Well, thank you for asking me that, Mike. It is quite rare that I get asked that question, and I think that's just purely because we're, in our wellbeing team, we're all in HR and across Experian, we're all trying to do our best to help people. And specifically in the role I have, it's every day trying to support people. And I think in order to kind of maintain that level and sustainability for the energy that that demands and requires to help people on that scale, you have to make sure that you're keeping yourself mentally well and knowing where to put your energy, and making sure that you have the right coping mechanisms in place. And definitely focusing on resilience. Amy: So this year I've been a bit of a journey myself. You know, starting from about September of last year, I started working with a mentor, a lady called [Rachael Meen 00:06:58] who is head of HR of EITS in the UK. She's a fantastic lady. I've been working with her every month to develop in certain areas, and you know, that's been completely invaluable. Amy: Alongside that, I've also had a series of counseling sessions through our EAP provider, LifeWorks, in the UK, and looking at kind of confidence issues and self-worth. So I think, for me, I've done quite a lot of different self-development this year to try and make sure that I am most prepared to be effective in this role, and also to be just myself at home, outside of work, because it's quite challenging environment that I find myself in, in this arena at work. And kind of being able to switch off at the end of the day is really important, so some of the things that I focused on quite a lot recently is making sure I have those coping mechanisms in place. Amy: So some of those include limiting the time that I'm spending on social media and reading the news. Recently, taking a step back from LinkedIn as well, because I found that to be quite hard. Initially, when all of this happened, seeing the response that people had to it and the way that they've reacted and the fantastic work that they've done, initially, I felt very overwhelmed by that, thinking I need to be doing something, but I don't know what that something is, and it kind of paralyzed me. And I kind of had a period of low moods for a few days, so I've learned my lesson. Amy: I'm not comparing myself to others. They're on their own journey, and that's okay. Small acts of kindness can make a world of difference, so whatever I can do just trying to help people that are vulnerable in today's climate, so making sure my neighbor's know how to contact me. They're quite elderly, so they may need me to nip to the shop, et cetera. Just helping other people, that's the thing that we can all do. You know, given appropriate social distancing. Amy: Listening to music. So that's something I do quite a lot of. And Mike, I think a few years ago, actually, when I first saw Shakespeare and I put a piece on Chatter about a spot of [inaudible 00:09:33], and I think you may have commented on it. And I'm trying to remember if you did. Patty: He probably did. Mike: Oh, boy. Patty: Yeah, he probably did. Amy: [inaudible 00:09:44] face of the competition, basically, saying could anyone beat the amount of music I've listened to that year. It kind of counted for about 77,000 hours or minutes or something, I don't know, I think my math's way off there. Amy: I challenged people, and I think I've seen you responded to it. Mike: Yeah, that's right. I remember that. Amy: Yeah, yeah. But that's something that I absolutely rely on, just switching off, putting my headphones in and listening to some Thomas Newman and just relaxing, that's how I unwind. Amy: But one of the core things is kind of also accepting, but sometimes ... if I don't [inaudible 00:10:31], but they're all solving the world's problems, and I want to focus on myself, that that's okay and I'm okay with that. But it took a long time to get my head around, because I felt that any kind of waking hour of the day, I should be directing my attention to fixing this or solving that or talking about this or finding the solution to that. And I was on a trajectory to being completely burnt out. Mike: I know. Amy: Yeah, just trying to make time for myself. Patty: I love that you mentioned that- Mike: Yeah, I think right now it's ... oh, go ahead, Patty. Patty: I love that you mention that because I feel like all over social media, you see people who are like, "You know, this is the best time to be productive and work on your passion projects," and you see people waking up at 5:00 AM and doing yoga, and it's just like, we're in the middle of a pandemic. It's allowed for us to just survive at this moment. Amy: Exactly. Patty: We don't have to make something out of this time, and it's a time of crisis, you know. So I love that mention that sometimes you don't need to be that productive. You just need to be able to take care of yourself and keep moving forward. Amy: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So it's so important, that the amount of posts on Instagram or LinkedIn, "What are you doing? If you're not doing something, what are you doing? You're just [inaudible 00:11:51] or whatever." It's like, no, actually, I'm just surviving. Patty: Exactly. Amy: Like I'm just [inaudible 00:11:55] where I try to keep myself okay. You know, mentally okay. And just seeing each day in and day out. What I'm doing is enough, and that's okay. Amy: But it is quite hard to kind of get to that point when that's all you're seeing on social media. I think it's quite difficult to kind of let yourself know that, that it is okay. Mike: Yeah, so true. I feel like, because all of us have our routines flipped. Like we've had certain things that we've done to energize ourselves, to make ourselves happy, before the pandemic. And now, a lot of those things, we can't do anymore. Mike: And so I found that it's been tough for me, because my normal routine was like every morning I'd head to the gym and do my workout, and then I would go to a local coffee shop and read and journal, and then I'd go to work. And I had like pretty much three or four hours to myself every morning to kind of recharge and now that, with the pandemic, I can't go to the gym. Mike: And I have no ... like, I'm so consumed with news, unfortunately. Like my time in the morning to journal and do my reading is now I'm like flipping through the news, wanting to keep up with what's happening in the world, and that can be very overwhelming to me. Mike: And so I'm trying to figure this out too, and similar to what you were saying about people talking about how are you staying productive, how are you ... like you can use this time to work on your passion projects. I'm like, I have no desire to work on any sort of passion project right now. Patty: Zero desire. Mike: I'm just like trying to get through this. I'm actually watching more Netflix, more than ever, just to get my mind off of everything that's happening. Amy: Yeah. No, yeah, that's exactly it. Amy: I think I started this with the approach that okay, I need to throw myself into this. I need to make sure that I'm coming up with fantastic new initiatives, both at work and at home, and I just had to take a step back and think this isn't sustainable. I'm trying to manage expectations at work and manage the wellbeing side of things, because that is huge right now. It is so important. But I'm only as good as what I can kind of input, and if I don't have the energy to do that, then I'm going to struggle. Amy: So I've had to take a step back and think, okay, start small and think what it is that I need to do to make sure that I'm okay. And my anxiety, when all this happened, my anxiety's through the roof. And it's kind of, week by week at the minute in terms of the triggers that I'm finding. You know, being on social media sometimes, that's a trigger. Last week, having to reschedule this conversation because I had an anxiety attack in the supermarket pharmacy section. It just got overwhelming and I couldn't ... I had to [inaudible 00:15:21], as much as I was looking forward to talking with you, I felt quite disheartened that I had to ask to reschedule, but you just have to take a step back and think I'm not going to be able to give this the attention or the energy that it needs because I'm just trying to cope with what's happening right now, and it is just trying to put your hand up and say I need to recharge. I need to relax. I need to switch off. And that's okay. Patty: You know, I love how vulnerable you are about your mental health and I feel like it kind of shows other people who might not be as vulnerable that they're allowed to talk about these kinds of issues. Patty: Do you have any advice for people who are a little more hesitant to talk about their mental health and maybe needing help, and where they can reach out? Amy: Yeah. So, thank you for your comment just then. It is something that I actively try and make a conscious decision to talk about because I know the ... I kind of know firsthand the impact the stigma has around mental health, and I think the less we talk about it, the more we add to that stigma and around how people feel about talking about mental health. Amy: And I think one of the important things that we can each day is, if we're struggling, just to say we're having a difficult time. It's quite ... when you first start openly talking about mental health, it can a bit weird and a bit [inaudible 00:17:00]. People can be a bit like, "Are they over-sharing? That's making me a bit uncomfortable." Amy: But I think that's where the stigma lies, and I think as long as we're all trying to normalize that conversation, the better chance to kind of live in the world where we're all being who we are. And talking about all the, not necessarily throwing out your dirty laundry and saying, "Look this is me," but certainly sharing that if you are feeling like you're having an anxiety attack or that you found something particularly difficult, or perhaps you're noticing somebody within the business that ... and top tips. Amy: I've been sharing quite a lot of TED Talks recently because I think the content there is absolutely incredible. There's a conversation recently by a lady called Lucy Hone, who shared her three strategies for resilience, and they were kind of game changers for me, and I have them pinned up just above my desk here. So I'm living them day in, day out. Amy: So yeah, that's a long story, definitely not kosher either, but that's me. Mike: I like that. I think it's so important that teams, right now especially, come together and are very, very sensitive to the mood of each person, making sure that people are checking in. There's got to also be that trust there, because not everyone's going to want to share with each individual on their team. Do you have any advice for team members who ... maybe that they are wanting to share a little bit about their anxiety, their depression during this period, but they're maybe not feeling super close to anyone right now. Things that they can do to get help or just ... maybe they're not even like, "I'm not ready to get help, but I do want to share a little bit about what I'm going through." Amy: I guess it depends on what space that that person wants to share that information with. I think there's different platforms that people can use. I think if you're someone that doesn't necessarily feel comfortable sharing with your team, you know, your direct team at work, then perhaps looking at the different networks that are out there for people. I know you have the Aspire Network. Amy: We call the networks in the UK, I think you call them ERGs in the US, but we have networks in the UK as well, and perhaps it's a case of joining a network where potentially nobody really knows who you are within that area you're in, and that it's a safe space to be able to share a little bit about what you're going through, some of your anxieties and fears, and have a conversation with someone because 9 out of 10 times, you're probably going to find somebody else that's in the same boat. Amy: So I would absolutely recommend engaging with our ERGs and our networks, but reaching out to people as well. You know, I'm always available to have a conversation with anyone that needs to talk about mental health, anxiety, depression, whatever it is that you're going through. I'm happy to have that conversation with you. Amy: In the UK, we also have mental health first aiders. So they are trained people who have been, you know, gone on a two day course to talk about how to help people in a mental health crisis. But they're there to talk to as well, so you can have a conversation with an individual who is trained in mental health first aid about anything to do with mental health. You don't necessarily have to be in a crisis right there and right then. If you're somebody that's struggling day in, day out, or you're noticing that you've got an increased sense of anxiety, then just have a chat with them and just share what you're going through. Amy: In the UK, as well, I mean, I'm referring to the UK support lines, but I'm sure [inaudible 00:24:38] in the US as well. We have Samaritans in the UK, where you can talk to somebody on the phone or over email, and they're completely independent. They don't know who you are, but they're to listen and to help. So there's so many resources and help lines and people out there that you can reach out to. If it's not somebody directly in your team or your family or your friends, it's always going to be ... there's always somebody there that you can speak to. Amy: I've also found myself sometimes, if I don't know how to have a conversation with somebody about what I'm going through, is actually just taking time to write it down. Write down how I'm feeling, just as a ... in like a blog format. And sometimes I'll share it, sometimes I won't. Sometimes it just helps quite kind of cathartic, just to write down all those emotions, those thoughts, those feelings, so you've kind of taken them out of your body and you're kind of letting it go slightly. Amy: So there's lots of different ways you can share without having to openly share with people that you might not feel comfortable doing so. Mike: That's really good advice. My therapist is always telling me to journal, and I'm really bad about journaling. I love to talk, so my thing has been like, I can just talk alone in my car, usually on my [inaudible 00:26:12]. You just kind of talk it out. That's how I do it. And also when I go on my long bike rides or I go running, I'll just be thinking about, processing, those different things that I'm going through. Amy: Yeah. Mike: I used to write a lot more when I was younger, but right now I'm in a season of like I can't write about it, I've got to talk it out. That's how I'm dealing with it right now. Amy: Yeah. I think that's a really good thing to do as well. I know exactly what you mean. You know, when I'm in the house by myself, which is never at the minute, if I am working from home normally in the day by myself, if I'm struggling I'll ... this might sound a bit silly, but just standing in front of the mirror and having a conversation with yourself is- Mike: Totally. Amy: It does help to say why am I feeling like this? What's caused it? This is what's happened in the day? What's bugged me? Has there been something that ... was there a conversation that didn't go so well or ... I mean, I'm a classic over-thinker. Literally, as soon as my head hits the pillow, all I'm doing is thinking about every single conversation I've had. And I'm analyzing it to the detail. Amy: So yeah, I think just trying to figure out what works for you. If it's journaling, that's great. If it's having a conversation in the mirror, fine. Sitting in your car, whatever you need to do. Yeah. I think just making sure that you're reflecting what you can do, maybe not overthinking and over-analyzing when you're trying to sleep, but having productive designated time. Amy: So my mentor, Rachael Meen, she suggested that once a week, I block some time out in my diary, whether that's 15 minutes, half an hour, whatever, just to reflect on the week. And just kind of see how well it's gone. Were there things there that didn't go so well? What were they? Okay, acknowledge them and I'll do them differently next week, and move on. I think that's a really good exercise to do. Mike: I think reflection is important, and like I find whenever I go running in the morning, that's my kind of reflection. My hour run, I'm just thinking, really about my work, what I'm doing, how I'm handling issues with my family. Mike: I think reflection is super important. I'm really happy to hear your mentor was like, "Hey, set aside time in your day. Put it on your calendar." Like totally, 100%, that is great, great advice. Amy: Yeah. She's brilliant. I think the work ... I said to her today, I had a session with her this morning, and I was saying to her, "You know, the work that we've done together has been absolutely incredible." And if she ever needed a testimony for her mentoring skills, I said, "Hit me up because, you know, you've been incredible." Amy: Thinking where I was in September last year, I was very, very nervous. I didn't like talking about myself. Whenever I was in a situation like this, where I was talking about myself and my experiences, I would get this stress rash. And I've had it for years, literally years. My whole life. And it just overwhelmed my body. Covered in a rash. And my confidence was like this. Amy: But working with her, just working through some of the issues that I've had, the confidence issues, working with my counselor, you know, it's just really helped to bring that to life. And Rachel, she's just been fantastic, so I would absolutely recommend finding yourself a Rachel and getting that self-development time because it's completely changed my life. Yeah. Mike: That's awesome. And I find that sometimes ... it's that to me the best mentors are those who have kind of gone through similar things. Like they understand where you're coming from, they've had anxiety, they've had depression, they've gone really difficult seasons, and to me, those are the people I connect with. Mike: Like yes, yes, let's talk about these things that we've both gone through. It helps me to hear how other people have kind of gone through their journey and what they're currently struggling in. Mike: And I think those conversations are super powerful and supremely cool because you don't feel alone anymore. Amy: Exactly. The one thing, I think, that I tried to make sure I'm communicating within Experian is that when we're not alone. Everybody is going through something. There is never going to be a one size that fits all approach to kind of helping people with mental health or wellbeing in general. Amy: You mentioned going out for runs, and that's something that as a wellbeing manager, technically, I should be promoting. You know, living that value and living that [inaudible 00:31:41]. Amy: Yes, I start my day with a bowl of fruit and then, you know, some poached eggs, and I have a smoothie and then I go for a run. Nope. That's not me. But I do admire anybody that can do that, definitely. Amy: But yeah, I think it is a challenge right now just to find out what works for everybody because it is difficult. There isn't a rule book or any guidelines of how to respond to these challenges that we face right now, so we all just have to figure it out. Mike: Yeah. And I had question about those who are approached by a colleague. Someone comes up to them and they that trust, that they feel like there's a strong relationship there, and someone begins to share what's on their heart, and it's something that's really hard. And I know that I struggle sometimes, even though I have been there, I have been that person, and I'm actually that person a lot. Mike: I have a lot of anxiety. I shared this with Patty. I go to a therapist. Oftentimes in our one-on-ones, it's like her ... Patty's my therapist. She's [inaudible 00:32:59]. And I want to give Patty my demons. Mike: But I'm kind of curious, like, how should people be responding when someone approaches them and tells them about a difficulty? And it could be anxiety, depression, and they don't feel equipped to handle ... like I'm not sure how I should answer this, I'm not even sure what to say in this moment. Do you have any advice for those of us who are receiving this information from somebody we love, someone that we have a good relationship with, and we're now, we're like, "Oh no, how do I navigate this?" Amy: Yeah. So, really good question, Mike. And especially it's a thing that I've been working on quite a lot recently is trying to help managers, for example, be able to have a difficult conversation with somebody they might not feel equipped or skilled in being able to respond to that. Amy: So like I mentioned earlier, we have mental health first aiders who are trained to be able to respond to those situations, but if you're a manager, or if you're a friend of somebody that's coming to you with a problem and they've had a particularly difficult time, whether they're really struggling with low mood, whether they've recently experienced loss, and you're just not sure how to kind of respond to that. Amy: I've been working with a lady within the business recently who volunteers her time as a Samaritan in the UK. And for those who don't know, Samaritans support people, most vulnerable people, within the UK, specifically around mental health challenges, specifically though to the mental health crisis. Potentially thinking about suicide, or actually planning and preparing for their suicide. But then they help those people by listening. Amy: They have some really clear advice which you can find on their website about how to have a difficult conversation, and how to be an effective listener. And they use something called the SHUSH technique, which is an acronym for the following. I've got it open on my screen just so that I get it right. Amy: So it's one, show that you care. So focusing on the individual, as you said at the start, kind of making sure that you're ... as we were talking earlier, making sure that your intention is on the person. So putting all technology away, turning notifications off, if you show that you're listening [inaudible 00:35:48] individual and letting them know that they have your attention. Amy: H, which is have patience. So it might take some time, and several attempts, for somebody to feel, for them to completely open to you. But then you're letting them know that you're there and that you're ready to talk whenever they want to talk. You know, even if you don't feel equipped, it's just making sure that they know that you're there and if they do need to talk, that you are going to sit and listen. Amy: The third one is U, which is use open questions. So this is something that I found interesting. Instead of kind of trying to provide advice or a solution to the person's problem, is using open questions. So asking questions that require more than a yes or no answer, and following up with questions like tell me more. So somebody, for example, is saying like, "I feel really rubbish and I don't know why," it is kind of prompting them, okay, well, tell me about your day. What started this thought process? Where did that come from, does the emotion come from? And just kind of trying to break that down a bit more without saying, "Well, if I was in your position, I would this." I tend to default to that, so this is a learning curve for me. Amy: The fourth one is say it back, so check that you've understood, but didn't interrupt or try to offer a solution. It's a case of reiterating to make sure that that person feels that they've been heard. Amy: And the last one, H, which is have courage. So try not to be put off by a negative response if somebody responds negatively to what you said or to your suggestion to open up and talk. It's making sure that they feel that they can come back to you at a different time, and having courage to say that to them in the first place, you know, "I'm here to help." Sometimes it can feel a bit intrusive and counter-intuitive to ask someone how they feel, and they're not ready to share that. So you'll quickly kind of tell if someone's uncomfortable and doesn't want to engage with you on that level. Amy: So a long-winded response to your question, Mike, but I think there's some important learnings there that I've certainly taken away myself, but essentially just having somebody listen could be all that person needs. Amy: It doesn't matter if you feel unequipped to solve their problems. They're not necessarily asking you to do that. It could just be that they just need you to listen. Mike: And that's really solid advice. I love that, oh man. Yeah, I like that acronym, SHUSH. That's such the key part. That's my problem sometimes. I like to talk. People are trying to share with me and I have to learn to just be quiet, listen. And sometimes my natural response is trying to find a solution and give it, and that's like totally the wrong way to go. Amy: Yeah, I find that too. It's really hard because it fights all of your natural instincts because you want to make it better for somebody, you want to make them feel better, you want to make sure that you're doing everything you can do to help their situation, and sometimes all you can do is just literally take a step back and shush and just listen. So I really, really like and appreciate that technique from Samaritans. I think it's fantastic. I can share that with you, the link to that information, if you want to use, Mike, for anything in particular. Mike: Yeah, that'd be great. We should actually put that in our blog, too, Patty. Patty: Yeah, we'll do that. I think one of my main issues is when I'm listening to someone confide in me is that I don't want them to feel alone, so I try to find a situation that I can help them relate to, and then I end up inadvertently making it about me. Patty: I think the acronym is really good because it's just like yeah, shush, be quiet, just listen. You're not being expected to come up with any solutions, and that's really important to remember. Amy: Yeah, no, it really, really is. I think particularly for me because, yeah, in mental health specifically, you want to make sure that people trust you and that they kind of trust your authenticity as well. And I find it quite challenging in creating an environment where somebody can share what they're going through and know that they can trust that the person that they're talking to understands what they're going through and can show that level of empathy and compassion that they need. But without making about it about yourself, it's really quite a challenge because that's not what you want to do. You don't want to make the conversation about yourself. But at the same time you want to make sure that person understands that you get it. So yeah, it's a fine line. Mike: Yeah. Yeah, and I think also what's hard too is that I like to have these conversations in person because to me, all the non-verbal communication that happens in a room, and also I feel more secure if I'm in a private room with that person. Like I know that there's a wall boundary, like no one else can hear us. Mike: Video chat, like, is there a child walking in the background? And also it's different doing video chat versus in person. Like I wish we were doing this all together, around a table, so we could actually have that also. I think it adds a lot to communication. Mike: So I think also what's hard right now is that, even for meeting my therapist, like we're now doing the calls through video chat because that's the old way that we can do it, and I feel like I have a much better connection when I'm in the office, having a private conversation. Like I feel more secure in that environment. Mike: So I think that's also a little bit, that's what's making it difficult during this time, to have these conversations with our colleagues. Amy: Yeah. The issue that level of authentic connection with people, that human connection. It's so important. The level of isolation that people must feel, you know, if they're isolating alone, that's something that I'm very aware of. I have friends that are isolating alone, and trying to make sure that I connect with them daily. Even if it is just at the end of the day, just to drop them a message, just to let them know that they're not out of sight, out of mind. Amy: That can be really easily done when you're working remotely. If you're not in the office, then you can kind of think have people forgotten that I'm part of the team? That's something that we all need to be aware of and make a conscious effort to make sure that we're connecting with people all over our team, even if we don't normally do it. Amy: And like friends and family, I don't know about you guys, but I have never been more connected to my family and friends than I am right now. Every night is a virtual quiz or a virtual [inaudible 00:43:26] or virtual house party or whatever. And I'm like, gosh, I'm sure I normally don't see these people more than twice a year, but it's something [inaudible 00:43:36], which is lovely, but yeah it's a strange world that we live in right now. Amy: And there's a quote recently. I'll try and remember it. And it was, "In a rush to get back to normal, we have to decide what's worth rushing back to," and I loved that sentiment because I think right now people are taking stock about ... some aspects of this are really challenging and very hard, and I can't put myself in people's positions that have lost family members and friends. I can't imagine the pain that people are going through. But for some people, right now, it's about taking stock about what changes they want to potentially make in their life, and having the opportunity and the head space to be able to figure that out, it's a privilege and it's something that we should be really grateful for. Amy: I certainly spent a lot of time over this Easter bank holiday weekend that we have in the UK just appreciating the slowdown, and figuring out what I want my world to look like after all of this has kind of settled down. I've no idea when that will be. I'm supposed to be getting married next August. I hope it's settled down by then. Mike: Oh, congratulations. Amy: Thank you. I had to take out insurance recently, so just about [inaudible 00:45:11] use it. But yeah, it's a period of time for reflection, as we said, and really just trying to practice gratitude. That is definitely underrated, but it's incredible. It's an incredible tool, just to take stock of what you're really grateful for, the people in your life that you're grateful for, and if they're are things that you took advantage of previously, like being able to see your friends and go down to the local pub or go for food, go for dinner, all of those things that you perhaps took for ... took advantage of, then yeah. It's kind of realizing where to show your gratitude. Mike: Amy, you touched on something that is super important, and that's those who are isolated. And you gave really good advice for those of us who maybe live with somebody or have family that we're able to interact with in our homes, but there are a whole bunch of people, like you said, who don't have that. They're by themselves. Some of them may have just broken up with their partners, maybe some are divorced, and are feeling very lonely. Mike: I'm wondering if you can share any advice or things that they can do during this time that's very, very difficult. Amy: Yeah, I mean, I can't imagine what it's liked. I have tried, and there was a period of time where I lived by myself and it was a very isolating world that I created for myself, and I shut myself off from everyone and I stopped talking to people. This was while I was at uni. It was a difficult time for me. Amy: And I found that really difficult, so there is something right now that I, I mentioned earlier, I listened to this TED Talk by a lady called Lucy Hone, and one of her strategies she mentions here, asking yourself what am I doing? Is what I'm doing hindering or harming me? Amy: So I think for an example, is what you're doing ... are you shutting your world off completely from people? Are you, just because you're isolating by yourself, are you isolating permanently from other people? Are you stopping giving people a ring? Are you cutting back on your social media but inadvertently stopping that connection with people, friends and family, that might be in the same position as you? Amy: I don't have any kind of personal advice I can give people who are self-isolating because I'm not doing it myself, and I think I would be the wrong person to give that advice to, but what I can suggest is just to make sure that whatever communication channel exists for you, whether that's through work or whether that's through your friends or your family, making sure that they stay open and stay as open as they can do, so making sure that you're taking time and remembering to give somebody a ring or drop them a WhatsApp message, or just engage with them on a social media platform, or just give them a text. Amy: Like that is something that I neglected to do for a good three years, and it was not a nice world that I created for myself. So I would hate for other people to start to do that themselves. I think people that are particularly vulnerable are those that have struggled or are struggling with mental health challenges already. If you go through periods of low mood and you get into a mindset where you want to withdraw sometimes, and if you are self-isolating and that loneliness kicks in, and that low mood kicks in, and you do start to withdraw even more, those chances to engage with people get smaller and smaller. And that's where the risk lies. Amy: So I would just encourage people to stay connected, and I would encourage people that know individuals that are self-isolating by themselves, just to check in on those individuals. And even if they're ... one thing as well. If you're in a head space where, so, this is something in mental health. If you're somebody that struggles with low mood and depression, perhaps you don't want to text back to people. You don't want to engage with people, and you've already got to that point where you've shut yourself off. One of the things that we can do to help those individuals is just stay talking to them, and one thing that I will be forever grateful for when I was struggling was my friend Jack. Amy: He would just drop me messages, text messages, even though I would never reply to them. He would just text me random things that he was doing that day, because he didn't know how I would respond to it and he didn't know that that was helping me, but it really did. And people just like to know. If they're in that situation, they don't want to reply to you immediately, but they still really, really appreciate getting that random text from you, just to say, you know, whatever you've been doing that day and you're thinking about them. It's, yeah. There's no words to explain how grateful I was for those text messages. Mike: I love that. We've been talking a lot about self-awareness and just being sensitive to how we're feeling. But there are a bunch of people also who may be struggling with anxiety, depression, and may not even realize it. I'll share with you, like, when I was younger, I was going through a lot of anxiety and for me, it actually manifested physically, where my legs started shaking, like uncontrollably. And I was really scared. I thought I had a nervous disorder. I didn't know what was going on, I was going to my doctor. My legs were just shaking uncontrollably. Mike: And my doctor ran all these tests on me and I had a brain scan, I had a number of other tests done to see what was going on. Found out that there was nothing physically going on. There was no nervous disorder. It was actually anxiety and panic attacks that I was having. Mike: And my doctor was, at the time, was asking me, you know, I was 20. I was at university. He was like, "Are you anxious? Do you have anxiety?" And I was like, "No. I don't have anxiety." Mike: And he's like, "Well, what's going on in your life?" And I was like, "Well," and I started to share things that were happening. And I started realizing that there were all these big things that were happening in my life that I just totally, just kind %

As I sit here on the day of the launch of the most comprehensive small business stimulus program in our nation’s history in response to the COVID-19 pandemic, my mind turns to the small business owners. Starting today, business owners can start applying for loans that are forgivable under the Small Business Administration’s $350 billion Paycheck Protection Program as long as those businesses maintain payroll to most of their staff and use the funds for eligible expenses.   You’ve heard that small businesses are the heartbeat of the U.S. economy, the statistics back that up - small business represents a 47% of all employees and generate 43.5% of the Gross Domestic Product (GDP).   More than their contributions to our economy, small business owners and their employees are the pillars of our communities, providing products, services, entertainment, and more. After the last few weeks, I think we can all appreciate the role small business plays in each of our lives.     We, at Experian, take our purpose very seriously - creating a better tomorrow by creating opportunities for businesses to succeed.   One thing we can count on in America is that small business owners rise to a challenge, it’s in the foundation of this great nation. Small business owners have the passion, fortitude, and downright grit to take them through the most challenging times – this time will be no exception.   But I also know that now and then a little help is needed, and right now we need to help small business owners who are dealing with the immediate implications of the COVID-19 pandemic. Beginning today, an unprecedented level of government support will be made available through the Small Business Administration and other government bodies.   At Experian, we applaud the signing of the Coronavirus Aid, Relief, and Economic Security Act (CARES Act) as it’s a great step toward economic recovery. The CARES Act provides grants and loans to small businesses with an unprecedented loan forgiveness program.   We also feel an obligation to do our part to ensure that small businesses, who are dealing with the immediate implications of this economic crisis, have additional resources at their disposal to make informed decisions at this critical time. That’s why I’m proud to share that we have made available to every small business in the United States free access to their Experian Business Credit report until May 1st. Small business owners can get their reports at www.freecompanycredit.com.   We also feel a deep obligation to our clients, the lenders, trade creditors, utilities, insurance underwriters, and more as they strive to support small businesses during this time. To further help small businesses gain access to capital they need, Experian also launched its free COVID-19 U.S. Business Risk Index to assist lenders and government organizations in understanding how to make lending options available to the business segments that need it the most. This new risk index can help business risk professionals better understand the impact that the pandemic may have on commercial operations based on several key factors. We also hope that our data and advanced analytics enable our clients to offer fair and responsible lending to small businesses that need it most during this time.   I’ll close by urging the small business community to please take advantage of accessing your free Experian business credit report while continuing to show the grit and innovative spirit that has helped make America the most robust economy in the world. I’ll leave you with one of my favorite quotes, from Arianna Huffington, “Fearlessness is not the absence of fear. It’s the mastery of fear. It’s about getting up one more time than we fall down.”   Sincerely,  Hiq Lee 

Listen or download the podcast here: Listen or download to the episode here or you can watch this episode on YouTube. Every week, we talk about important data and analytics topics with data science leaders from around the world on Facebook Live.  You can subscribe to the DataTalk podcast on a iTunes,  Google Play, Stitcher, SoundCloud, and Spotify. DataTalk features data science leaders at MIT, Caltech, United Nations, Gartner, Twitter, Salesforce, Amazon, UBER, IBM, LinkedIn, Spotify, Dow Jones and dozens of other startups and top data companies. In this week’s #DataTalk, we chat with Dr. Gleb Tsipursky, CEO of Disaster Avoidance Experts, about ways business leaders can navigate this unpredictable, covid-19 pandemic (and how to build trust with employees and clients while working remotely). In this chat, Dr. Tsipursky shares: Ways to change business models during this unpredictable covid-19 season How cognitive bias impacts our business decisions Crisis management and business continuity during covid-19 Mistakes many leaders make when hiring their teams (and ways to prevent confirmation bias) How cognitive bias clouds our judgement (and how to ignore gut instincts) Ways to build trust with remote team members during this pandemic How leaders can display empathy with their employees How teams should manage conflict when working remotely And much more ... About Dr. Gleb Tsipursky Gleb Tsipursky, PhD is CEO of Disaster Avoidance Experts, focused on helping protect leaders from business disasters using cutting-edge cognitive neuroscience and behavioral economics research. His thought leadership has been featured in over 400 articles; including: NPR, Scientific American, Business Insider, Time, Psychology Today, Inc, Newsweek, and countless others. His global clients include: Aflac, IBM, Honda, Wells Fargo, Xerox and World Wildlife Fund. Check out his 8 video-based module course on ways to reducing gut-based decisions. He's also the best-selling author of: Never Go With Your Gut: How Pioneering Leaders Make the Best Decisions and Avoid Business Disasters  The Blindspots Between Us: How to Overcome Unconscious Cognitive Bias and Build Better Relationships The Truth-Seeker's Handbook: A Science-Based Guide Dr. Tsipursky earned his PhD in the History of Behavioral Science at the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill, M.A. at Harvard University and B.A. from New York University. Follow him on LinkedIn and Twitter. Check out our data science podcast and video series DataTalk is hosted by Mike Delgado, Director of Social Media at Experian. Please reach out if you have suggestions for topics or guests.

  Join Rod Griffin, Experian’s Sr. Director of Consumer Education and Advocacy, for a live credit Q&A every Friday on the Experian News Facebook Page and Crowdcast.io at 9:30 a.m. PT/12:30 p.m. ET. In this live series, Rod Griffin and his team will answer your credit questions to help you use credit as a tool to achieve your financial goals.  Our goal is to have an open conversation about the credit issues important to you so that we can help each other through this difficult time and into the future! View our past chats: 5/29: What to Know About Unemployment and Credit 5/15: COVID-19: What to Know About Fraud and Identity Theft During COVID-19 5/8: Should You Apply for New Credit During the COVID-19 Pandemic? 5/1: COVID-19: What You Need to Know About Credit Scores 4/24: COVID-19: How to Read Your Credit Report and What to Look For 4/20: COVID-19: Free Weekly Credit Reports 4/17: COVID-19: What to Know if You Have to Rely on Credit Cards to Get Through Quarantine 4/10: COVID-19: Forbearance and Deferment #CreditChatLive 3/25: COVID-19 and Credit: Rod Griffin interviews Bruce McClary of the NFCC

These unprecedented times call for unprecedented measures. Experian supports the signing of the Coronavirus Aid, Relief, and Economic Security Act (CARES Act). We are encouraged by this historic effort to protect consumers and businesses alike. The relief bill is a great step toward economic recovery, directly supporting Americans through expanded unemployment coverage and by providing grants and loans to small businesses. At Experian, we have an unwavering commitment to help consumers and clients manage through this unprecedented period. We are actively working with financial institutions, lawmakers and regulators on tools and initiatives to protect consumers from potential adverse consequences to credit reports and credit scores as a result of financial hardship caused by the COVID-19 outbreak. Additionally, we remain focused on ensuring data integrity as we lead industry initiatives to provide financial institutions methods to clearly identify consumer accounts that are subject to financial hardship as a result of COVID-19 and ensure that such information is properly reflected in credit reports and scores. We’ve built a culture of continuous innovation at Experian, from the way we work to the solutions we create. This has formed a workplace where our teams across the world have a sense of purpose, with a collective desire to help change the lives of millions for the better. Now, more than ever, this is a crucial role we play as we work to create innovative solutions and tools for consumers and businesses to successfully navigate this evolving financial landscape moving forward. Our support of the CARES Act is just one step of many, as we support consumers and customers alike to help bolster the financial ecosystem.