Small Business Matters Episode #20 In a world where 401(k) plans have long been considered a perk exclusive to large corporations, Penelope is a company on a mission to level the playing field. Penelope’s founder, Jean Smart, is working to make retirement savings accessible to everyone, specifically entrepreneurs and small business owners. Penelope provides a turnkey solution for retirement plans for small businesses with (and without) employees. Penelope doesn't just offer a solution; it's a testament to the power of passion and perseverance, shaped by Smart's years of experience in the financial services industry. With a background in product marketing and sales strategies for large companies, she intimately understands the value of 401(k) plans. These plans, which enable employees to gradually build wealth through regular contributions and investments, had been instrumental in securing her own financial future since she started working at 21. However, the COVID-19 pandemic served as a wake-up call for Smart. It prompted her to reflect on her own life and the broader challenges faced by small business owners and entrepreneurs, especially those closest to her heart—her family. She reflected on the relentless dedication of her parents, who operated a small business, and their lack of knowledge about retirement plans for small businesses with employees, like themselves, and how their future could have been different if they’d had that knowledge. This revelation struck a chord with her, igniting the spark that led to the birth of Penelope. Penelope, named after Smart's daughter, represents a personal journey, too. For Smart, It's about creating meaning beyond one's profession and ensuring future generations have the financial security they deserve. Smart took a leap of faith and embarked on a mission to democratize retirement savings for small businesses and entrepreneurs. "We want every employee, even the lowest paid employee of the smallest company, to actually have a shot at having a million dollars if they're working 40 or 50 years. Penelope gives them the tools to be able to do that."Jean Smart, Founder, Penelope Penelope makes retirement planning accessible and easy to navigate for small business owners. Overcoming the Hurdles of Small Business Retirement Planning The challenges faced by solopreneurs saving for retirement, and small business owners, no matter their business structure, in offering retirement benefits to their employees can be overwhelming. Financial constraints, coupled with the myriad complexities of retirement planning, often deter them. Penelope, however, sees these hurdles as opportunities for innovation. One of the biggest misconceptions is the belief that 401(k) plans are prohibitively expensive. While the cost can be a concern, Penelope leverages government incentives and offers a streamlined approach to make it affordable. Smart points to the Secure 1 and Secure 2.0 legislation, which provides tax credits of up to $16,500 for businesses getting started with retirement plans. Penelope also simplifies the entire process. Instead of drowning in a sea of questions and options, small business owners only need to answer a few essential questions to get started. “A lot of the plan design, it's sort of 1,2,3,” says Jean Smart. “Instead of making you answer 130 questions, we just ask a few questions around eligibility. A big portion of our plans are what we call safe harbor, which has a matching component, and we do that because that will save small business owners a significant amount of time in administrating and going through auditing and compliance testing down the road.” Another common myth is around the perceived complexity of investment choices. With over 6,000 funds available, choosing the right ones can be daunting. Penelope takes a straightforward approach by offering index funds based on an employee's birth date, known as target date funds. These funds are managed by a world-class asset manager, ensuring a balanced and safe investment strategy that adjusts with age. Technology Empowering Small Business Owners Penelope's innovative model extends to its pricing structure. While many providers employ assets under management pricing, Penelope opts for fair, flat pricing. They charge for the general expense ratios of maintaining and administering the fund, eliminating the costly asset-based pricing that accumulates over time. This forward-thinking approach potentially saves employees hundreds of thousands of dollars over their working lives. The heart of Penelope lies in leveraging technology to provide maximum value. Their goal is to ensure that every employee, regardless of their role in the smallest of companies, has the chance to accumulate a substantial retirement fund. By automating processes, integrating with payroll providers, and simplifying the entire experience, Penelope makes retirement planning accessible and hassle-free. For younger entrepreneurs and business owners, the Penelope platform is tailor-made. Strengthening the Next Generation of Entrepreneurs For younger entrepreneurs and business owners, the Penelope platform is tailor-made. The digital nature of the service aligns perfectly with a generation comfortable with online tools. Starting early, even if retirement seems distant, is a crucial piece of advice from Jean Smart. “The only thing that I could say is start early. The best time to save for retirement is 20 years ago. The second best time is today. The third best time is tomorrow. That's it. There's nothing after that. And it is much easier through these technology platforms when you're taking a little bit of your salary every two weeks compounded over time, and everything is automated.” The earlier you begin saving, the greater the potential for wealth accumulation. The platform's ease of use, automated features, and integration with various payroll providers resonate with the tech-savvy Millennials and Gen-Z entrepreneurs and workers. It's an opportunity for them to take control of their financial future without the burden of complicated administration. A Special Focus on Women and Women of Color Smart emphasizes the importance of retirement planning, especially for women and women of color. Women tend to earn less, live longer, and take on primary caregiving roles, making it imperative to start early. Penelope aims to empower women through education and simplified processes, reducing the intimidation factor often associated with financial planning. Recognizing the unique challenges faced by women and women of color, Penelope offers multilingual support and strives to eliminate financial jargon. Their goal is to ensure that every woman, regardless of her background, can confidently navigate the path to financial security. "The best time to save for retirement is 20 years ago. The second best time is today. The third best time is tomorrow. That's it. There's nothing after that."Jean Smart, Founder, Penelope Penelope also simplifies the entire process of retirement planning for small business owners and entrepreneurs. Success Stories That Inspire Penelope's impact can be seen through the success stories of its clients. Take, for instance, Roberta, the founder of a nonprofit theater company in New York. Penelope provided a streamlined solution that allowed her to offer retirement benefits to her employees, enhancing their financial well-being. Jefferson, a former Wall Street trader and restaurant owner, chose Penelope to simplify retirement planning for his diverse group of employees. The platform's user-friendly approach and multilingual support made it a natural choice. Another client, a former lawyer who started her own practice, found Penelope to be the answer to her retirement planning needs. It offered the simplicity she required as she transitioned into entrepreneurship. These stories reflect the diverse range of businesses that Penelope serves, united by their shared need for accessible and efficient retirement planning solutions. A Bright Future for Retirement Savings In a post-COVID world, entrepreneurship is on the rise, and Penelope is at the forefront of helping the people behind these new ventures secure their financial future. Through innovative technology, fair pricing, and a commitment to education, Jean Smart and Penelope are empowering small business owners, especially women and women of color, to take control of their retirement planning. Penelope's mission is not just about numbers; it's about securing brighter, more financially stable futures for those who dare to dream and build. Penelope is not just a retirement platform; it's a beacon of hope for a more inclusive and financially secure future. To learn more about Penelope and its mission, visit www.Penelope.co, and take advantage of their complimentary consultation to explore how they can help you secure your financial future. “We want every employee, even the lowest paid employee of the smallest company, to actually have a shot at having a million dollars if they're working 40 or 50 years,” Jean Smart says. “Penelope gives them the tools to be able to do that.” Read the transcript of our interview with Jean Smart about retirement plans for small business owners, or listen to her on Episode #20 of our Small Business Matters podcast! Watch Our Interview What follows is a lightly edited transcript of our interview: Emily Garman: Hello, and welcome to Experian’s Small Business Matters podcast. My name is Emily Garman. Joining us today is Jean Smart, the founder of Penelope, a company whose mission is to make 401K's and retirement plans available to everyone, especially entrepreneurs and small business owners. They develop software to make this not only affordable and possible but simple. Usually, 401Ks can only be offered by large companies that can afford the infrastructure to provide this benefit to their employees. Penelope believes that anyone, no matter their business structure, should be able to open a retirement account if they want to. Well, Jean, thank you so much for joining us today. I'm really excited to talk to you here. So tell us a little bit more about your background and what inspired you to start Penelope. Jean Smart: I have been working in financial services for most of my life. And a big part of what I was doing was helping large companies set up their workplace and employer benefits, doing product marketing, sales strategies. So,  I was very familiar with it and I've been doing it for so long that one of the things that I noticed, and this happened for me personally, is that this 401k product that large companies offer when an employee starts putting a little bit of their paycheck over time, compounding that interest and putting it into the markets that it was generating wealth for a lot of people, a lot of households. So I always knew that. And for me, it was something that I had started when I started working at 21. And after a couple of decades in corporate America, that had grown to a really good nest egg. And it was something that I really felt compelled to do.  and I think for a lot of us, COVID was a reset. What are you doing with your life? How are you working? How are you spending your time? I mean, truly, it was life or death. It gave me pause to think about, is there a way I could turn what I'm doing and do it in a very different way? So Penelope was born; it's a very personal journey on a lot of different fronts. I spent a big chunk of COVID very near my family. I live in New York, but my parents are in Southern California, and I got to see them a lot, of course, outside being safe. And I got to see all the hard work that they put in, in their small businesses. But they just didn't know what a 401k plan was. And I thought, man, if this is something that they knew about earlier on, they could be in such a different position now. They're doing great, but it's just something I thought about a lot during COVID. And finally, Penelope's the name of my daughter. It's named after literally the direct beneficiary of my 401k plan, my husband's plan; she will benefit from everything her parents and her grandparents have done. And I think, often when we work, we're looking for meaning beyond just what we do and what our professions are. And a lot of that is for this next generation. So it kind of cobbled together, came through like in that moment. And, then I jumped off a cliff and made the big leap to starting the company. Emily Garman: Wow. That's really inspiring to know. And I like that, thinking about the why and the reason why we're doing what we're doing. So I would think that a lot of small business owners, if they're thinking about this, they're thinking, well, I just couldn't afford it for my employees. Or, it's just me, I'm a solopreneur. So, what are some challenges that solopreneurs and small business owners face when thinking about offering these kinds of benefits to themselves and their employees. And how are you addressing those challenges? Jean Smart: So first of all, the good news is I feel like there's more support. There's more help at both the Federal, State and just in the public sector space. So there's probably more support today than there ever has been. But I will say there are a lot of choices and a lot of confusion. So I think for solopreneurs and small business owners, you're counting every dollar, every penny, you're looking at your customers, you're looking at expanding your business, you're looking at keeping your employees and you're dealing with a lot of the pressures of running the business across a lot of dimensions. So when you're thinking of benefits, oftentimes people go to health. Medical, dental health benefits, and that can be quite sizable. Then you're looking at other benefits, like maternity, family, there's so many different options, but the 401k plan right now is our singular most, proactive stance that we could take for employees and ourselves to creating financial security when we're older. I don't know if you have seen this or not, but if you actually go to the Department of Labor website, Social Security is running out in 10 years. So that security that we all banked on are certainly generations before us. I don't think it will ever go down to zero, but it won't be the fulsome amount we've had in the past. So the government has passed some legislation. It's called Secure One and Secure 2.0, to actually incentivize a lot of small businesses into taking action. So there's up to $16,500 tax credit for starter cases. People have never had a plan to get started to help support matching, to help support the cost of it, et cetera. Also, we've got Google. When you go on Google there, there's so much, but again, you can get to analysis paralysis. What we designed specifically for small businesses and employers, is something where we did a lot of the thinking for them. So a lot of the plan design, it's one, two, three; instead of answering 130 questions, we just ask a few questions around eligibility. A big portion of our plans are what we call Safe Harbor, which is a matching component. We do that because that will save small business owners a significant amount of time in administrating and going through auditing and compliance testing down the road. So again, we designed it so that they're answering four questions versus 130. And a lot of people can get overwhelmed by investment options too. There's 30,000 funds, 50,000 funds; how do I choose? We take index funds based on an employee's birth date. They're called target day funds, working with the world class asset manager. And we automatically put them in a set of investments that help investors manage the risk. Which is basically the ratio of equity to bonds over time so that the portfolio is a little more safe or conservative as they get older. And then a big part of what we also do is, we price fairly, we have flat pricing. So a lot of the providers today customize a robust plan based on complexities, maybe sometimes proprietary funds. There are a lot of intermediaries in the mix. We just pay per use. And one of the things that really differentiates our plan from others is this thing called AUM, which stands for Assets Under Management pricing. We don't charge that. We do charge the general expense ratios of the cost of maintaining and administering the fund that our providers use. But we don't do it because we're using a very modern tech platform and service model to simplify it. What that translates to, it could be just, a couple of cents a day, a couple of dollars a week. But that additional asset based pricing over a lifetime can mean hundreds of thousands of dollars to go into the employee. And our north star building this has always been to leverage technology, not to take away from the experience to provide the most maximum value. So we want every employee, the lowest paid employee of the smallest company to actually have a shot at having a million dollars if they're working 40 or 50 years. So you can do that. And, and that's how we structured our product. Emily Garman: And that seems really appealing for a young entrepreneur, a young business owner, even though that person may not be thinking so much about retirement. It seems like a really long time away, like they've got all kinds of time in their life before that happens. And as those of us who are a little bit older know, it really does creep up on you pretty quickly. But for a person who's young, not necessarily seeing that this is something that maybe they need to think about right away, he process you've described is just a few questions instead of hundreds of questions. It's an online platform. They can communicate with experts via chat, instead of making phone calls; those things sound really like they're appealing to a younger generation of entrepreneurs. Jean Smart: Yeah. I think if you're young, younger, the better. I actually think are the younger generation, millennial Gen Z; they're probably the smartest, most robust generation. I really have a lot of hope for the future, but I do think they're overwhelmed. I think there's so much information out there. But they're comfortable with digital tools. And the only thing that I could say is start early. The best time to save a retirement is 20 years ago. The second best time is today. The third best time is tomorrow. That's it. There's nothing after that. And it's much easier through these technology platforms when you're taking a little bit of your salary every two weeks compounded over time, everything is automated. We integrate with over 150 payroll providers. So no matter who you're using, we're able to make it really fast. So you're not having to manually do reports or check on it all the time. You want to set it and forget it. But before you set it and forget it, you want to make sure you've got the right funds. You want to make sure you know exactly what you're paying for at each step. And you want to make sure that you're checking in and your provider is accredited and can provide all the education and support that you need. I think one of the things about these flat based pricing or subscription models, a lot of the younger business owners are already using it for small business enablement. They may already be using their PO, their payroll, their accounting software already. So just integrate this into your core step and make it as easy as possible for you. Emily Garman: I'm curious if you could talk a little bit about how important this is, particularly for women. A lot of women are becoming entrepreneurs. They're becoming small business owners, creating jobs and particularly women of color. I mean, we see Black women are far and away that the highest percentage of businesses being started are by Black women now and during COVID as well. I think of a few people in my life who are older women, whose entire retirement livelihood is dependent upon what their husband did when he was working. So talk about just the concept of preparing for retirement for women, young women, women of color. Jean Smart: I am a woman of color. I am an immigrant.  I was born in Seoul, Korea.  I didn't really, we didn't talk about stocks and bonds at the dinner table growing up. My parents were really busy starting their businesses. Getting their family in order and making sure everything was right. I mean, they just had a lot going on. So I think they had a lot of big dreams about their children going into professional services and business and, having things become easier and looking back, starting my own business and having been in corporate America. I think all of it's hard, and especially for women of color. We know particularly how hard that is. And when I think of women, not just women of color, and retirement investing, women still make less, live longer and are the primary caregivers, are responsible for children, primarily a lot of the work at home as well as for their parents. So to start early, you've got almost all the things kind of going against you. So you've got to start earlier. And I did a lot of thinking about that. And I thought a lot, actually, of my mom. And when they were at their businesses, I actually, I remember growing up reading a lot of their business mail because English wasn't the first language and they certainly didn't understand some of the tax laws or business letters and notices that they were getting. So I remember how stressful that was. And a big part of what she really wanted was, can you give me oversight? Can you read this and tell me what I should do? Can you do this for me? So a lot of what we built in Penelope in terms of cutting out the intermediaries, pricing it per use and putting the best investment with the least amount of effort was kind of designed with her in mind. And so it is one, two, three, a few clicks. You can on board in 15 minutes and we're going to be doing it in a couple different languages next year for minority business owners who are more comfortable with other languages. So we've got that feature built in. And I mean, I'm there, I'm right there. I had the fortune of birth to have parents who stayed together, who took care of us, who paid for my education; that really set me off. But I realized there's a lot going against us, but you know what? We show up, things are hard every day. We know what to do and we are committed to doing it.  This is something we can't short out on. This is something we have to do. And whether it's with our platform or another platform, get educated, spend 15 minutes a day doing research or 30 minutes, and then make the decision in a couple of weeks and just check it off and then you're done. You can put it aside and move on to your next challenge. But it is something particularly for women and women of color to own and to do, especially if we are parents, to teach our children about. So, I get it. We have a ton of loom videos and education sessions and a significant portion of our clients are women-run businesses, are foreign-born business owners. And we welcome that group. I absolutely understand what that seat is like. And we try to do our very best to reduce jargon and just speak plain English. So that they're not intimidated, and they can get started right away. Emily Garman: So when you're talking to those folks, in those interactive sessions, I'm curious. Obviously knowledge, just understanding how this all works, is a barrier because people may be reluctant to engage because they just don't understand it. But what are some myths or misconceptions that people have about 401Ks, and retirement plans that maybe you could share with us? Jean Smart: I think the biggest one is should I match or should I not? I can't afford it. And I think a big part of what we do is, we've got a tax calculator that provides a general estimate about how much their savings can be, and what they imagine is thousands of dollars every month ends up being a few hundred and it is accessible. And that there are all new sorts of new tax regulations and tax changes that come into play. We are not CPAs, so we always make sure that we encourage them to talk to their accountants, but part of it is just that education. And I think the other part beyond the cost is, how much work do they have to put into it? What do I have to do every two weeks? Am I going to have to create spreadsheets? What do I have to communicate? And we take care of all of that for them. We give them a welcome kit with sample emails to educate and send to their employees. We have many triggers, alerts, emails, and communications set up. We've got security built-in with two-factor authentication. We've got so many things that are automated that the idea of cost and labor is probably the biggest inhibitor. And once we do a quick demo and share what we've got, it's a fairly easy conversion, honestly, for small business owners to take any time talking to somebody is a big deal. So when they're there, we do our best just to answer their questions and make sure that they get what they need so they can move on to the rest of their day. Emily Garman: Well, in that vein, do you have any success stories that you'd like to share? Jean Smart: Yeah, so I'm thinking of a couple of clients.  Our first client is Roberta. She's the founder of a non-profit. It's a theater company here in New York. And as soon as you hear the word non-profit, people don't go into non-profit thinking "I'm going to make a lot of money." They're going into it for a passion for, in this particular case, for the arts. She's had this company for about five plus years and always wanted to do this, but just didn't have an opportunity or find a solution where she didn't have to then learn about financial services and learn about investments or pay high advisory fees. She wanted to get something set up reasonably quickly and have her employees understand and adapt to it. So we helped her set up a plan, and her employees have been happy. They're high participation rates for her. So we're really glad. Another client of ours,  Jefferson, is one of our very first clients, he heard about us on a Motley Fool podcast and was really interested. And he's a former Wall Street guy, a trader, he knows investments, knows everything about this space. And he's got a restaurant in Boston, four of them in a big holding group; they're using different payroll providers, but many of their employees are wage earners.  He's very committed to making sure that his managers, the prep cooks, and the front group are saving and really thinking about it. Certainly, it's something he's done in investments for a long time. So he chose our plan over the Massachusetts Restaurant Association plan knowing it would be easier for his employees.  Some of them speak different languages. Some of them were born in other countries. He was also very much thinking about costs and about the decisions that a lot of his team would have to make. So we've been working closely with his manager teams to make sure that the education component, the onboarding component, and the experience are as seamless and as straightforward as possible. So, that's a client that has been with us from the very beginning that we're really honored to serve. A third one is a professional; it's a former lawyer who took some time off. She was a partner at a law firm and took some time off to spend more time with kids, starting her practice and going into our own business and setting that up. And she's getting older, thinking, oh my gosh, I'm forgetting to set up my 401k. This is something I've got to do because there was that gap. So finding a platform, a product set, finding us, who would make it easy to serve, she's got two people right now, I think was a huge plus for her. So these stories are a little bit every day we cross, and we serve many different industries. But I would say the common denominator is they're often smaller in employee size.  They're just getting started. They've got employees.  Generally, this is their first investment vehicle, so they would need it to be really simple. And the education is a big component of it. And they want to make sure they're getting the best deal. There are small business owners, and all the budgets, in the world are important. So those are the things we try to make sure that we're focused on all the time. Emily Garman: It's so interesting that so many entrepreneur stories are coming out of COVID. I mean, yours included, and the people you're helping are coming out of COVID, a lot of people decided to change the trajectory of their careers, or they decided they wanted to do something completely different. And so what you're doing is helping them prepare for the future. Jean Smart: I think it was something like 700, 000 new businesses started during COVID. And then more and more people are leaving larger organizations to try it on their own. And a big part of it is technology. With the platforms we have, you can set up your online store. You can do your own advertising. You can actually get customers and do presentations and demos through Zoom. The way we work and the way we operate is completely different. And many had a full-time job and a side hustle. And during COVID, they decided to turn that side hustle into a full or full-blown business. So it is exciting to see a lot of creativity happening for sure. Emily Garman: Yeah. People doing things that they love makes a difference for them and for the world and their communities. And I think that's terrific. So,  thank you so much for being here. I've learned a lot about what you do. So please tell us where our listeners can find you online and get in touch. Jean Smart: Sure.  You can find us at www.penelope.Co. Please join us. We've got a complimentary consultation. It's just 15 minutes to talk to any of our specialists about what we can offer. So please sign up there. And we're also on Instagram, LinkedIn, Facebook, and all the social media outlets, so please check us out, find us. And again, thanks for listening. Emily Garman: Thanks so much, Jean. We're really glad to have you on today.

In this episode of Experian's Small Business Matters Podcast, Shaun Bull, founder and owner of Enterprise Consultants Group, explains what tax resolution involves and how his firm assists small businesses in efficiently resolving their tax matters to get them back on track. He provides insight into the most common tax mistakes small business owners tend to make, and shares some success stories of clients his firm has helped turn around. He also helps clear up a few myths around the IRS and whether they will negotiate IRS debt, even with business owners owing millions in back taxes. Listen in and see if a business tax resolution specialist might be able to help your business. 00:00 Introduction to Shaun Bull and Enterprise Consultants Group00:11 Understanding Tax Resolution and Services Offered01:20 Importance of Proactive Tax Management for Small Businesses02:23 Common Tax Mistakes Small Business Owners Make03:44 How to Start Resolving Tax Issues05:10 Tips to Avoid Tax Troubles06:45 Success Story: Resolving a Major Tax Issue08:56 Understanding the Cost and Benefits of Tax Resolution Services09:25 Debunking Myths about IRS Negotiations09:54 Rewards of Running a Small Business10:14 Conclusion and Contact Information Watch Our Interview What follows is a lightly edited transcript of our interview with Shaun Bull. Emily Garman: Today we're speaking with Shaun Bull, founder and owner of Enterprise Consultants Group, a tax resolution firm in Los Angeles. Shaun, welcome to the Small Business Matters podcast. What is tax resolution really? Shaun Bull: We're resolving tax matters. As we know, as small business owners, taxes are always a pretty large expense. You may, get into a situation where you can't afford to pay or you may get into a situation where you have for whatever reason gotten off track. And so our job in Enterprise Consultants Group is to listen to the business owners concerns as it relates to taxes and find ways to efficiently resolve the tax issue, whatever it may be, and get that business owner back on track. Our goal after that is to try to maintain that relationship with that business owner and at least move forward with filing their tax returns on an annual basis. We offer other services such as incorporation services, all services related to opening or closing a business. Emily Garman: It sounds like you can help a business from beginning to end. So if someone's just thinking about starting a business, you can help them with the paperwork, getting everything set up correctly. Shaun Bull: Being proactive about having your taxes under control is by far and away the best way to stay out of getting into tax trouble. As simple as it may sound, it's very true. You want to have good advice going into it and make the right moves from the beginning, because if you don't, once you start the business and running revenue, it can be increasingly difficult to get things set to where they're supposed to be if you don't start off that way. So you want to start off on the right foot, we definitely do that here. We do a lot of consulting. We get a lot of calls from business owners who are just starting out. Want to make sure that they're putting the right foot forward. And yes, I would say that we can definitely handle it from A to Z. Emily Garman: Most of our listeners are small business owners, entrepreneurs. And I think it might be interesting if you can share with us the most common mistakes that you see small business owners making when it comes to taxes. Shaun Bull: When it comes to getting into tax jams, I would say the most common would be, believe it or not, divorce. What happens with small business owners, just like anyone else, is divorce wreaks havoc on the finances. A lot of what we see with small business owners is, they'll have their spouse doing the books. If that spouse is doing the books and the other person is doing the work, you can already see where this is going. It creates problems and the business owner gets off track with the taxes. They don't know where to start in terms of wrangling the books, the numbers and it eventually leads to having some tax problems. So that is the number one. I would say the second would be not having a good accountant. It's amazing in our industry, how many times we see where someone says, ‘everything was going great until my accountant died’ or ‘everything was going great until I stopped doing business with my accountant.’ That can, of course, lead to tax trouble. Emily Garman: Where does somebody start when they've got back taxes or they have a dispute or they're just in trouble in general, they make a phone call to you, right? Shaun Bull: Right; in short, we go on a fact finding mission and we start by asking the business owner a series of questions to find out all of the necessary information. From there, we contact the IRS. We also do that for free. We call it a compliance check. They have a division of the IRS that's set up exclusively for tax practitioners and we deal with them on a daily basis. We call them with the taxpayer or business owner and we look at it like popping the hood on a vehicle, right? If you've got a vehicle that's broken and you don't know why the car isn't running. Naturally, the first thing you need to do is pop the hood and find out exactly what the problem is so that you can find out what the repair will be and therefore what it will cost. And you go from there. It's similar for us. We need to find out exactly, what the cause of the problem is, and if we can address it, and then design a business tax resolution plan to resolve the matter from there. Emily Garman: What are some things that everybody can do to make sure to minimize the possibility that they'll get into tax trouble later? Shaun Bull: That's a great question. I would say the number one tip to minimizing the chances of you getting into tax trouble would be to either A, have a bookkeeper who you are in constant communication with. If you're communicating with them effectively, at least once a month. That would be the number one tip. Number two, if you don't have a bookkeeper, you want to do your own bookkeeping, which I'm a big fan of. There's all types of software out there for bookkeeping. And I think that it's important for small business owners to constantly watch their money. So using software like QuickBooks. You can, on a daily basis, see the transactions, you can see the money coming in, the money going out, and you can see the money getting categorized in with that information that you're looking at on a continuous basis. It will be difficult for you to get off track with your taxes, which could lead to you getting behind and then being in a situation where you can't afford to pay. So I would say, in short, it would just be to watch your money either have a bookkeeper that you're working with. Where you can constantly watch the money or do it yourself, through software such as QuickBooks. Emily Garman: Do any stories come to mind of people who have used your business tax resolution services, who have made a great turnaround or ended up as a real success story because of your services? Is there anybody whose lives have changed because of the work you were able to do with them, or the money you were able to save? Shaun Bull: One of my favorite success stories where we were able to change a client's life; this client is in the horse racing industry. He rehabs racehorses, like a Seabiscuit story. It's pretty cool. He rehabs horses and gets them out there to racing again. He approached us because he came across a business opportunity for which he needed a gaming license for the state of New Jersey. I believe he got behind on taxes. He had a few years where he hadn't filed the taxes and he owed quite a lot of money. It was over $250,000 to the state. He needed to get this gaming license by a certain date, but he had a tax lien filed by the state and there was no way that the state was going to issue him this gaming license.With the tax lien, I knew that it was it was going to be a pretty difficult case because the state of New Jersey is pretty difficult to negotiate with. And I also knew that the deadline that we were given, it was going to be pretty stressful, but it was doable. Long story short, we were able to get in, hear him out. Of course, we went through our same process where we go on the fact-finding mission. Long story short, we were able to settle the tax debt with the state of New Jersey out of the over $250,000 that he owed. He only ended up paying back something like $30,000. He paid that $30,000. The lien was lifted and he was able to obtain that gaming license before the deadline. Emily Garman: One of the things you mentioned a couple of times is that all of this investigation, and meeting with the person to get their story up front is at no charge. And that was something that was surprising to me. I figured that cost would be a barrier to utilizing your services. So what are some other things that you want to make sure people know about your business and what you do? Shaun Bull: A lot of business owners don't believe that the IRS will negotiate and that's simply a myth. It's not true. I have had business owners who have owed into the millions in tax debt, and we've settled for as little as $5,500. There are programs that you may or may not qualify for, and there's absolutely a business tax resolution strategy that is required in order to see it through with success, but it's definitely doable. Emily Garman: So as a small business owner yourself, what's been the most rewarding aspect of that for you, of being self employed? Shaun Bull: The most rewarding aspect of running a small business for me is the autonomy. The ability to do things without having any limitations or any governance. Emily Garman: Shaun, thanks for taking the time to be here with us today on the Small Business Matters podcast. I've learned a lot about business tax resolution and actually my own taxes in the time that we've spent together. Thanks for sharing your story with us. And can you let our listeners know where they can find you online? Shaun Bull: Sure. Absolutely. You can send me an email direct Shaun G that's S H A U N G at enterprise consultants group dot com, or you can connect with me on LinkedIn.

At first glance, Laura Lady's storied career in toy marketing might not suggest her foray into tackling pressing environmental challenges. However, her Founder’s journey is a testament to her passion and versatility. Dinner Conversation Spawned Idea One evening, amidst the laughter and camaraderie of a dinner party, the topic shifted to the then-recent discovery of a 'fatberg' in East London's sewers. This enormous mass, equivalent in size to two London double-decker buses, was a clogged accumulation of fat and waste. Though the term 'fatberg' was new to Laura, it sparked her curiosity, leading her down a research rabbit hole. She soon found that such blockages resulted from careless waste disposal, especially the pouring of oils down drains. This not only created blockages but often caused sewer overflows, contaminating waterways. The challenge became more personal for Laura during the COVID-19 pandemic. While cooking at a farmhouse on septic, she was confronted with the dilemma of disposing of used cooking oil. The uncertainty of the pandemic made traditional recycling options less accessible. This was the catalyst for Laura, prompting her to think: "There really has to be a better way." With a series of kitchen experiments, Laura began to create a solution that was both user-friendly and good for the environment. When she felt confident about her product, the next hurdle was production during a global pandemic. Her decision to move her family out of the city to a rural setting came with the benefit of a large 2-car garage, perfect for a small home-based manufacturing plant where Laura ran small batches of her invention and gauging product viability. Environmental Leap of Faith Starting FryAway didn’t come without risk. But in Laura’s case, the risks were calculated, leaving a prestigious role at Lego and relocating her family back to the U.S. Laura was able to develop FryAway while consulting for foreign toy companies entering the U.S. market. The beauty of her entrepreneurial journey was the freedom it accorded her, especially in choosing who to work with and setting the tone for her company. For Laura Lady, owning her business provides a unique blend of flexibility and purpose. It allows her to strike a balance between family, personal time, and business, while also addressing a significant environmental issue. With FryAway, Laura Lady has once again shown her knack for transformation – this time, turning used oil into a solution rather than an environmental problem. Learn more about Laura Lady and FryAway More Founder's Narrative Stories: Related Posts Share Your Story

Mike Olsen's story is a testament to resilience, adaptability, and the undying spirit of entrepreneurship. Last month marked 23 years since Mike bid farewell to his military life, a period in which he served as an M1-A1 Armor Crewman in the U.S. Army. His role as a 19K had him operating tanks, a role demanding precision and unwavering commitment. Leaving the Army in 2000 with an honorable discharge, Mike's initial journey into the civilian world was riddled with its set of challenges and learning curves. At a young age of 24, he ambitiously ventured into the world of business, purchasing a bar. What was intended to be a side gig quickly evolved into a full-time business commitment due to unforeseen challenges with his business partner. Four eventful years later, and after the birth of his identical twin girls, Mike made the pivotal decision to sell the bar. This choice allowed him to refocus on his union job with KEYSPAN and embrace the joys of starting a family. Fast forward to the present, and Mike stands at the helm of Evenflow Sewer and Drain Service, a venture he's proudly nurtured for three years. From pumping septic tanks to line clearing, Mike's dedication to quality service remains unwavering. Yet, just like any other small business owner, he faced financial hurdles, especially in the formative years of his enterprise. Enter Experian Business Credit. This platform became Mike's guiding light, allowing him to monitor his business credit closely. "Without Experian Business, I'd be in the dark about my financial standing," Mike reflects. Not only has the platform helped him stay prompt with his payments, but the insights it provides, like the 'Days Beyond Terms', have played an instrumental role in enhancing his financial literacy.In the initial years, Mike grappled with unfavorable financing options. However, with the support of Experian Business Credit Advantage, he not only secured business credit cards that seemed elusive due to his personal credit standings but also saw an uplift in his credit limits. "I check my Experian business credit profile almost religiously," Mike admits, emphasizing the role of real-time feedback in enhancing his creditworthiness. From navigating the intricate terrains of the Army to maneuvering the dynamic world of business, Mike's journey stands as a beacon of inspiration. With the continued support of platforms like Experian Business Credit, there's no doubt that he's poised for even more success in the years to come. Listen To More Customer Testimonials

Braxton Fleming isn't just any entrepreneur; he is one with a deeply personal connection to his business, Stealth Bros & Co. As a transgender man, the initial inspiration for his venture stemmed from his own need for a place to store hormone replacement therapy medications. What began as a basic idea, rooted in personal necessity soon evolved into a thriving enterprise as Fleming keenly observed the needs and desires of his community. His innovative drive led to the creation of the "Junior Dopp Kit," a product that he meticulously designed. While many entrepreneurs boast about swanky offices or sophisticated origins, Fleming's journey paints a picture of true grassroots entrepreneurship. Orders for Stealth Bros & Co were initially fulfilled right from his childhood bedroom. From there, he transitioned to using the basement of his home, and as the demand grew, he upgraded to a more spacious two-car garage. Balancing personal life and work has always been a challenging act. Fleming, while starting his business, was juggling responsibilities as a licensed practical nurse. He managed this dual role until the birth of his daughter last year. His appearance on the famed reality show, Shark Tank, was a game-changer. Describing the experience as both "a gift and a curse," the positive outcomes were undeniable. Stealth Bros & Co not only secured funding but also enjoyed a substantial boost in brand visibility from the show's vast audience. When asked about the perks of entrepreneurship, Fleming doesn’t point to financial gains or fame. Instead, he cherishes the flexibility and freedom it provides. Being his own boss allows him to be present at home, witnessing every milestone in his daughter's life—a luxury many parents can't afford. For those eager to explore Stealth Bros & Co's offerings, the company's online presence is a comprehensive resource. You can visit their website at www.stealthbrosco.com, or check out their social media handles @stealthbrosco. Want to be featured on Founder's Narrative? Share your story with us–it's quick and easy! We'd love to meet you. Related Posts Share Your Story

Selecting a legal structure for a business is one of the first things you’ll have to do when you decide to start one. This is an exciting but potentially hazardous time for entrepreneurs. There are many things to consider, from creating a business plan, to establishing financing, to figuring out how your business should run legally.  Choosing a legal structure for your business is critical because your decision determines how you will be taxed, how much control you will have over your business, and how much personal liability you will incur, among many other things. In this post, we'll discuss the most popular legal structures so you can confidently choose the one that best suits your needs. Different Types of Business Legal Structures Sole Proprietorship A sole proprietorship is by far the simplest of all business legal structures. It's essentially an extension of the owner, which means that the owner is solely responsible for all the company's actions and debts. There is not a lot of paperwork because you have no partners and you do not have to create a board of directors. It is best suited for entrepreneurs who only want to start small and do not expect to take on additional partners or investors. Sole proprietors have complete control over their businesses and can remove themselves as the owner whenever they please. A sole proprietorship is a great choice for several other reasons. It’s usually the most affordable to set up. Expenses you can anticipate are any state and federal fees, taxes, business equipment, office space rental, and any professional services or items your business might require—like attorneys, cleaning services, bookkeepers, uniforms, etc. As a sole proprietorship, you may be eligible for specific business tax benefits, such as being able to deduct the cost of your health insurance premiums. Sole proprietorships are also relatively easy to end, if you decide to close your business. You can dissolve your business at any time, with no paperwork or announcement necessary. In fact, it’s much easier to end a sole proprietorship than it is to end a marriage! The Downside of Sole Proprietorship Setting up a sole proprietorship also has downsides and risks. One major concern is unlimited personal liability, meaning your personal assets are at risk if the business faces financial troubles or lawsuits. Limited access to capital and resources is another downside. Sole proprietors may find it difficult to secure financing or attract investors due to perceived instability, potentially hampering business growth and competitiveness. It also might be more difficult to attract top-tier employees or partners due to perceived instability, which can limit growth as well. Partnership There are two types of partnerships: general partnerships and limited partnerships (LLP or LP). A general partnership is when two or more people own the business, sharing management responsibilities and risk. All partners in a general partnership have unlimited personal liability for the debts, obligations, and legal actions of the partnership. This means that your personal assets can be used to satisfy the partnership's financial obligations. A partnership could be a good setup for you if you’re thinking of starting a business with a friend or family member. A limited partnership consists of at least one general partner and one or more limited partners. General partners manage the business and have authority over its operations, while limited partners are typically passive investors with limited involvement in management decisions. You will need a partnership agreement, and it’s in everyone’s best interest to have an attorney at least review that agreement. Benefits of a limited partnership include sharing expertise and responsibilities with your partner(s) while limiting your personal liability, and flexibility in terms of partnership agreements and the allocation of profits and losses. A partnership increases your likelihood of securing a business loan, as multiple owners allow banks to consider multiple credit histories. This is helpful if any of the partners have poor personal credit. Eventually your business will have its own credit score (learn about Experian’s blueprint for establishing and building business credit), but at the beginning, lenders will consider the personal credit scores of all partners. Potential Risks of Partnerships As in any relationship, you have to consider the potential drawbacks as well when deciding on a legal structure for a business. It's critical to choose the right partners, and be clear on how much capital each partner will contribute from the very beginning. You must also clearly define how profits and losses will be split among partners, based on what criteria. It's also worth talking about exit strategies and how that would work if one or more partners wished to leave or close down the business. In general, businesses that are partnerships do not pay separate business taxes (but there are always exceptions); instead, the income is passed through to the partners’ personal income tax returns. It is possible (in your partnership agreement) to set up different tax burdens and different shares of the business income for different partners; it doesn’t always have to be split equally. It’s important to note that Limited Liability Partnerships (LLPs) and Limited Partnerships (LPs) are not the same thing. While both are limited partnership structures, they have distinct characteristics, purposes, and legal implications. While both LLPs and LPs involve partnership structures and offer some form of limited liability, they serve different purposes. Professionals (lawyers, etc.) commonly use LLPs and this allow partners to actively engage in business operations while enjoying liability protection. People often employ LPs for investment ventures, with general partners managing the business and limited partners providing capital but having reduced liability and involvement. It's crucial to understand the nuances of each structure and choose the one that aligns with your business goals and industry. You should consult with legal and financial experts to make informed decisions based on your specific circumstances. It’s an up-front expense, but one that could save you a lot of money in the long run. The downside of partnerships Setting up your business as a LLP or LP has its drawbacks. For LLPs, it involves complex formation and compliance processes, which can be time-consuming and costly. Additionally, partners may have limited control, leading to potential conflicts. In the case of LPs, limited partners face restricted involvement in daily operations, making it less appealing for those seeking an active role. Attracting investors can also be challenging due to perceived risks, and LPs can be less flexible in terms of dissolution or restructuring. Both structures provide liability protection, but come with complexities and limitations worth considering. Limited liability Company LLCs offer both protection and flexibility, and the LLC is a popular choice for a legal structure of a business. They protect you from personal liability and provide tax flexibility similar to sole proprietorships and partnerships. However, owners (called members) are subject to self-employment taxes on their share of the profits, which can be higher than regular payroll taxes. Depending on where the business is located, LLCs may have restrictions on how long the company can exist, and their members must be permanent residents or US citizens. Like limited partnerships, LLCs protects owners from personal liability for the company's debts and legal actions. This means that if your company gets sued, your personal assets (generally speaking) are off-limits. Additionally, LLCs provide flexibility in management and ownership, allowing members to choose how the company is managed—either by the members themselves or by appointed managers. LLCs can have a single-member structure or multiple members, accommodating various business sizes and types. On the other hand, dissolving an LLC can be more challenging than for sole proprietorships or partnerships, requiring compliance with state-specific regulations and potentially leading to additional expenses. While limited liability is a key advantage, it might not fully protect members if they personally guarantee business loans, which could happen if the business is just starting out and has no business credit score, or if the business is a sole proprietorship. Some states impose an annual fee or franchise tax on LLCs, which can add to the overall cost of maintaining the business. S-corporation S-corporations are tax entities, meaning that they exist to help small businesses save money on taxes. To qualify, the business must have less than 100 shareholders and meet other IRS criteria. If you own an S-corporation, you will pay yourself a reasonable salary and, in turn, reduce your taxable income. One major advantage of an S-corp is the potential for tax savings. Like LLCs, S-Corps are subject to pass-through taxation. This can help you avoid the double taxation often associated with traditional C Corps. Shareholders can potentially benefit from the lower individual tax rates compared to corporate tax rates. Additionally, S Corps allow shareholders to receive both a salary and distributions of profits, potentially providing tax advantages by reducing the amount subject to self-employment taxes. In other words, you can be the employee of the company (collect a salary) and also a shareholder. S-corps have liability protection similar to other corporate structures. This separation between personal and business liabilities can provide peace of mind to shareholders. Furthermore, an S Corp structure can lend credibility to your business, potentially making it easier to attract investors, secure financing, and establish relationships with suppliers and customers. Downsides to S-Corps S-Corps have more specific requirements, however, including limitations on types of shares they can issue, and what types of entities can own them. Regulations constrain shareholders' ability to offset losses against other income, which might affect investors seeking to deduct losses from their overall income. S-corps also have a high level of administrative complexity. They must adhere to specific formalities, such as holding regular meetings, keeping detailed records, and complying with state-specific regulations. Failing to meet these requirements could risk the company's S Corp status and result in tax consequences. Furthermore, S Corps might have limitations on raising capital by issuing different classes of stocks, which could impact expansion and fundraising efforts. C-Corporation C-corporations offer owners the ability to raise an unlimited amount of capital by issuing stock, taking on investors, and public offerings. C Corps have no restrictions on the number or type of shareholders, making them suitable for larger businesses seeking significant investment. A C-corp offers complete separation from personal finances and provides several protections from federal taxes. However, because it provides the owners and shareholders with the greatest asset protection, the corporate structure comes with the heaviest tax and legal responsibilities. Another notable benefit is the ability to retain earnings within the company without immediate tax consequences. C-Corps can accumulate profits and reinvest them into the business, allowing for growth and development without triggering immediate tax liabilities for shareholders. Additionally, C-Corps can provide various employee benefits, such as healthcare plans and retirement accounts. C-Corps also offer limited liability protection, shielding shareholders' personal assets from the company's debts and legal liabilities. They can also continue to exist independently of changes in ownership, making them a stable and enduring choice for a legal structure for a business. Drawbacks of C-Corps However, there are also drawbacks associated with forming a C-Corp. One significant consideration is the potential for double taxation. C-Corps are subject to corporate income tax at the entity level, and any profits distributed to shareholders in the form of dividends are taxed again at the individual level. This can result in a higher overall tax burden compared to pass-through entities like S-Corps or partnerships. Additionally, C-Corps are also administratively complex, and face greater regulatory scrutiny than other business structures. They must comply with procedures such as holding regular shareholder meetings, maintaining detailed records, and adhering to specific reporting and disclosure obligations. Choosing the legal structure for a business is an essential task that can seem overwhelming. While there are many legal structures to choose from, it is critical to choose the one that best suits your needs by considering your business type, your funding, and your comfort level with personal liability. Remember, each type of legal structure has different pros and cons, making more research and understanding of the various factors necessary. Consulting with legal, financial, and tax professionals can help you make an informed decision that aligns with your business objectives while minimizing potential risks.

We were thrilled to get the opportunity last April to speak with John Jantsch about his new book "Building The Ultimate Marketing Engine", and what inspired the book. During our interview, he touched on several core ideas: Resilience in Tough Times: John highlights the importance of businesses being meaningful in the lives of their customers and employees during challenging times, as exemplified by the success of one of his clients, Charlie, whose remodeling business remained resilient because it maintained a strong connection with its customers and team. Marketing Principles Remain Unchanged: John also emphasizes that despite the rapid changes in the digital marketing landscape, the core principle of earning trust remains constant. Jantsch believes that businesses should continue to focus on providing value to customers rather than resorting to spammy marketing tactics. Customer Success Track: He introduced the concept of the "Customer Success Track," where businesses help customers evolve through various stages, adapting their approach to address evolving needs. This approach can be applied by any business to enhance its products, services, and sales messaging. Redefining the Customer Journey: Jantsch challenges the traditional customer journey funnel concept, suggesting that the real opportunity lies in creating an end-to-end customer experience that leads to repeat business and referrals. Every customer should ideally become an advocate for the business. Building Trust in Marketing: John emphasizes the importance of building trust in marketing by ensuring that businesses appear trustworthy to potential customers. This involves having a credible online presence, showcasing positive reviews and results, and making it easy for customers to provide feedback. Watch Our Interview What follows is a lightly edited transcript of our interview. Gary Stockton: John Jantsch is a marketing consultant, speaker, and author of “Duct Tape Marketing,” “The Referral Engine”, and “The Self-Reliant Entrepreneur.” He's also the founder of the Duct Tape Marketing Consultant Network, which trains and licenses independent consultants and agencies to use the Duct Tape methodology. He's a trusted small business marketing expert and authority who has just released a new book, “The Ultimate Marketing Engine – Five Steps to Ridiculously Consistent Growth.” So, for this small business matter on growth and marketing, we invited him to share his insights. John, welcome to the Small Business Matters podcast. John Jantsch: Thanks for having me, Gary. Gary Stockton: Your latest book opens with a text message from Charlie, one of your clients, asking for advice on an email he's about to send to his team of 50 employees and his customers in response to statewide shelter-in-place orders, informing them that all active projects will be put on hold. Many businesses would fail in the following year, but not this one. Why was Charlie's business so resilient? John Jantsch: That email went to his employees and clients. Many businesses sent a similar email. I saw the responses that came back from that email. Many said something like, "you’re doing the right thing. We're with you." One even offered to pay in advance for a kitchen remodel. Businesses thrive in tough times by being meaningful in the lives of their customers and their team. Those businesses that were close to their customers came through in shining fashion. Gary Stockton: He didn't have any projects canceled. It's remarkable and a testament to the business. How long has Charlie been in business? John Jantsch: Like many local businesses, Charlie is the second-generation owner of this remodeling business. His father started it around 1980. Gary Stockton: Stop spamming people and taking your customers for granted became common at the pandemic's onset. Do you think businesses have learned, or will things revert to pre-pandemic norms? John Jantsch: People will revert. The advice to "stop spamming" and "value your customers" was always good. Marketing's goal has always been to earn trust. While the digital landscape changes rapidly, that core principle remains. Gary Stockton: What was your biggest realization while writing this book? John Jantsch: I introduced the "Customer Success Track" based on my experiences. Our customers came to us at various stages. We fixed their challenges and moved them to the next stage. This approach can be adapted by any business. Viewing customers as evolving entities changes how you approach your business, products, services, and sales messaging. Gary Stockton: In the book, you challenge the typical customer journey funnel concept. Why? Most marketers focus on getting people to know the brand and then converting a small fraction into customers. The real opportunity is to create an excellent experience, leading to repeat business and referrals.John Jantsch John Jantsch: Most marketers focus on getting people to know the brand and then converting a small fraction into customers. The real opportunity is to create an excellent experience, leading to repeat business and referrals. People naturally make referrals, but for many businesses, it's accidental. The customer journey should be end-to-end, with every customer becoming an advocate. Gary Stockton: You talk about invoking trust in marketing and refining messages. Can you give examples? John Jantsch: The most practical way in many cases is realizing that with the changes in marketing, it changes the way people buy. Even if someone recommends a business, nowadays, I'll turn to a search engine first. I want to see their website, check if other people trust them, see if their content has appeared in familiar publications, and find out if they've gotten results for businesses like mine. We're all busy, so we first need to ensure a business is trustworthy before diving deeper. Gary Stockton: Making it easy for customers to give feedback is essential. Amazon has effectively integrated this into their workflow. Even my dentist offers incentives for check-ins on Yelp. It's all about getting people into that feedback loop, right? John Jantsch: You can't persuade someone to leave a positive review with incentives if their experience was negative. However, many businesses with happy customers fail to gather reviews simply because the process can be inconvenient. Making it easier for people to share their experiences can result in more positive feedback. Gary Stockton: I recently read the Edelman Trust Barometer and found that businesses are now the most trusted entities at 61%, ahead of NGOs, the government, and media. How should small businesses interpret this in terms of establishing trust? John Jantsch: Businesses ranking high in trust is a relatively recent trend. We've seen many small businesses suffer recently, which likely sparked empathy. As for employee trust, businesses are struggling to find and retain employees. It's essential to show the world your company's value, ensure a smooth onboarding process, and build trust throughout the employee's journey. The framework I use for the customer journey can also be applied to the employee journey. The key is to build a strong brand and ensure every step feels right for the individual. Gary Stockton: I'm an Apple customer and feel more like a member of a club. Is this the idea you reference when talking about customers as members? John Jantsch: While Apple is a well-known example, it's about a shift in perspective. Imagine if a customer felt they were joining your business rather than just purchasing from it. The idea is to consider the long-term transformation and relationship, rather than just a transaction. Gary Stockton: Joey Coleman's book discusses the importance of the onboarding experience. Can you elaborate on this? John Jantsch: Both customers and employees value the onboarding experience. Research shows that if you lose an employee, it's likely within the first 90 days due to a lackluster onboarding. A stellar start can solidify the relationship for years. Gary Stockton: Anything else you'd like to add? John Jantsch: We've discussed the customer journey, which I refer to as the marketing hourglass: Know, Like, Trust, Try, Buy, Repeat, and Refer. These stages represent behaviors we want to guide our customers through. Instead of worrying about being on every platform, focus on enhancing each stage of this journey. Gary Stockton: The book is the “Ultimate Marketing Engine – Five Steps to Ridiculously Consistent Growth.” John Jantsch, thank you for joining us. Where can our audience learn more? John Jantsch: The book's website is theultimatemarketingengine.com, where you'll find free chapters and a complimentary course. For more about my work over the decades, visit ducttapemarketing.com. Gary Stockton: Thank you so much, John.

At Experian, we understand the vital role small businesses play in our economy. They are the backbone of innovation, job creation, and community growth. That's why we're encouraging our readers to take the Federal Reserve Banks' annual Small Business Credit Survey for small business owners and the self-employed. Why Your Voice Matters This 10-minute survey is a crucial tool for understanding the challenges and opportunities faced by small business owners and self-employed people in the United States. Small businesses like yours often face unique financial hurdles, and this survey is your chance to share your experiences. Whether it's sharing your stories of accessing credit, managing cash flow, or navigating economic uncertainties, your insights can make a difference. Experian's Commitment to Small Businesses Experian is dedicated to empowering small businesses by providing access to valuable financial insights and resources. We believe that by working together, we can help small business owners thrive in a dynamic marketplace. We are proud to promote the work of the Federal Reserve Banks as one way we're actively involved in supporting the small business community. How You Can Help We encourage all small business owners and self-employed individuals in the United States to take part in the Small Business Credit Survey. Your input is invaluable in shaping the future of small business credit and financial support programs. Take the Survey

Small Business Matters – Episode #18 If you are running an online store for your small business, you know how important organic traffic can be. So for this small business matter, we’re going to talk about Pinterest marketing, and why it has become such an important component for so many online resellers. Jeff Sieh is here to help us unpack all of that. Jeff is an international speaker and visual marketing consultant, specializing in Pinterest, visual marketing, and video. He hosts the Social Media News Live show and podcast and is also “Head Beard” at Manly Pinterest Tips. Jeff has worked with and produced content for many leading companies and influencers, including Guy Kawasaki, Kim Garst, Social Media Examiner, and Tailwind. Watch our interview What follows is a lightly edited transcript of our interview. Gary Stockton: Jeff, welcome to Small Business Matters. Jeff Seih: Man, I am so excited to be here, Gary. Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to geek out with you a little bit on Pinterest. Gary Stockton: That's awesome. And I've been looking forward to this interview since we started talking about it a couple of weeks ago, and reading so much about what you've done with Pinterest and in social media as well. But can you tell us a little bit about how you got started focusing on Pinterest? Jeff Sieh: Yeah. So many moons ago, back in the day I was driving. I can't remember. I just launched a new blog post and I was listening to a podcast like I like to do on long trips. And I heard this girl on that was Social Media Examiner's podcast talking about Pinterest and how much traffic it had driven to her website. And I was like, man, I could really use some traffic. So I thought, Oh, I might as well start a Pinterest account. So I started doing that and I wrote this article called, when I started using Pinterest, called Manly Pinterest Tips, #1. And it was how I shared the secret board, because you can share boards with people and keep them secret, with my daughter, and we were sharing tips and crafts and that was when she was younger and stuff, and recipes. And that post did really well. And then I went on Pinterest and it did even better. And this was back in the day when Google Plus was all the rage and I was there. I had a lot of followers and actually started a live show that was back before Facebook live and all that stuff happened with four other guys, and we were able to interview people like Guy Kawasaki, who you mentioned, who I do his podcast for now, but also people like the guy who was the producer for "Pretty Woman" and "Under Seige" we got, it opened a lot of doors doing live video and then I turned it to a podcast and that led to working a lot with Social Media Examiner and speaking and all sorts of things. So yeah, it all started with a little blog about Pinterest back in the day on Google Plus. Gary Stockton: Wow. So what's unique about Pinterest marketing? What sets it apart from marketing on other social platforms? Jeff Sieh: So the founders, even the founders of Pinterest have said that it's not really a social platform. And I know it gets lumped in there with Facebook and, YouTube and Snapchat and all those things. But it is actually more of a search engine. So I would say it's more like YouTube than any of the other ones, all the social platforms, but they call it like a discovery engine and it's a place to go to discover new ideas and pin things you like. There's no fake news. There's no spammy stuff that comes out. It's a visual search engine, is what it is. And so that's what really sets it apart from every other thing. And the thing that really attracted me to it when I first started, and it's still true today. Is that the, like the shelf life for a tweet or a Facebook post is something like eight minutes. It's really small. Pinterest has this long term effect. Now it takes a little bit to get started and to go, but it's a search engine. So people are going and pinning your pins. And I think the average time for people like before they do something, it's three months. So it lasts for a long time. It's got this huge shelf life and, I don't know about you, Gary, but creating content is hard and, I want to get the most of it out of as I can, and Pinterest marketing made sense to me because it would surface back up. It's just really, it's that long term and it's that long tail that really was attractive to me. Gary Stockton: That's incredible because I spend, an inordinate amount of time distributing content and creating the content, yes, that's a big job, distributing it. And that half life of a tweet or a Facebook post, it's, you really have to think about that, you know what I mean? We do have to get our new content out there, yes, but the fact that Pinterest marketing is such a long term play it really makes sense if you double down on Pinterest. Is it hard to build an audience on there? Jeff Sieh: It's harder now than it's ever been before. So like when I first started, it's a lot harder now. But the thing about Pinterest marketing is so cool is that you don't have to have a lot of followers. You don't, because the algorithm is surfing your content, just like Google, you don't have to have a lot of followers on Google to make it successful. If you show up in the search results, the same thing with Pinterest. There's people who have 1500 or smaller audiences and they're killing it doing Pinterest marketing. They're making sales. They're getting traffic to their website because they're creating content that an audience on Pinterest really wants and it's surfacing up through the algorithm, what they call the smart feed, which is what you scroll through Pinterest and you see all those pins. That's what the algorithm is serving you. And if you strike a nerve or you're pinning content that really resonates on Pinterest, you don't have to have a huge number of followers. So I have, I think, I have I haven't checked in a while, but 30,000 followers on Pinterest, but my monthly views for my content is like over a million. And some of those smaller people who don't even have 30, 000, they can even have a lot more than I have. And it's not so much followers that you want on Pinterest. It's not like Instagram or anything like that. I'm always in it for the clicks. I want people to click on it and go back to my website. The whole reason I'm there is for traffic. And you got to remember your audience on Pinterest. They're not coming to Pinterest to, like hunt for likes or, to see what everyone else is doing. They're looking to find what they love and what they want to save and maybe purchase or go read later. And It's almost a curation engine where they're going and let's say, Gary, you're decorating a man cave, like you've got a new garage and you're going to decorate it all out. And so you'll start going to Pinterest and going, Oh, I really like that workbench. Oh, I really like what they've done with that. That's how Pinterest marketing can help you here, if you're selling that stuff. That metal art, that would look great in my man cave, it and you pin it. And then later on, you go purchase it or you go and you find more stuff to add to it. It makes a lot of sense for, thinking about your audience and knowing that people are going there to dream and to be inspired by and, purchase things. I think they said that people on Pinterest are 30% more likely to purchase things because they're shoppers. That's why they're there. The other thing is, brands sometime have a hard time. Like on Facebook, they have, oh, there's a post from a brand. Nobody wants it. On Pinterest, they don't mind. They like it. There's a lot of stuff from brands. Target kills it on there. Home Depot, Lowe's. They do some really cool creative stuff and people enjoy it because they have tapped into a way that they're helpful to that audience, because they've devoted some time to Pinterest marketing. Gary Stockton: So we talked about finding products for a man cave. It's not just for… It's not just for men, right? And it's not just for women. And I think that's probably one of the biggest myths out there that we can bust right now, right? Jeff Sieh: Yeah. So the funny thing is, so when I started Manly Pinterest tips, I did it as a joke, because it was known, it was like, this is a platform for like nail art and braids and, maybe some recipes. And you had to dig a little bit deeper back in the day when I first started, but there's just all this content for, like I was saying, man cave, it's cigars and, cocktail recipes and all the barbecue and all this cool stuff. And so I was into Pinterest marketing for traffic because I knew it worked for traffic. And that's why I started and I actually started growing the beard back in the day. I was like, if this Manly Pinterest Tips thing doesn't work, I can always shave. And so it's been, gosh, I don't know, seven years, eight years now that I've had this big old hunk of facial hair. But yeah, it was known for that and it was mostly in the United States and the European countries there; it's still the fastest growing demographic, the male demographic is. And more people are getting into it. There's a lot of guys who use it, but don't admit that they use it. It's the thing like their girlfriend or their wife will give it to them and they'll start using it. And they're like, man, there's a lot of cool stuff on here. Like for my man cave or my garage or for whatever. I have a lot of woodworking stuff on there because I do a lot of woodworking that I get tons of content and some great ideas over on Pinterest. So yeah, it's still, people make fun of Pinterest and Oh, it's, it'll fit in a Mason jar, and all the quinoa recipes and all that stuff. But there is a lot of great content for men on there. So don't let that stereotype really sink in too deep. Gary Stockton: Thinking about the content, you really do have to be intentional. If you are photographing products and photographing it in a good way, and maybe making some initial investments in lighting if it's jewelry, for example, you would want to make sure that it's, it's not set down on a dinner table, you want to have it with a nice lighting. Are you doing that with your Pinterest channel? Jeff Sieh: So for the clients that I've worked with, yes. But I have a friend who's, you mentioned jewelry, and she creates jewelry, she's a silversmith and does this really great stuff. She's over in the UK, some gorgeous stuff, and she's killing it doing Pinterest marketing. She's doing a lot of cool stuff and you're right. Photography is very important, but when I first started the strategy was, you create content, you make a pin and you share it to all these different boards and you keep doing that over and over. That has changed now. So they really want fresh content on Pinterest. They also really want video. If you go through Pinterest now, you'll see a lot of video where before it was all static. They also have these things called idea pins. They were used to be called story pins and they're almost like stories like you find on Instagram, only they don't go away. They're attached to your account. And the point that I'm making is yes. Photography is super important, especially for static pins. You want to have really great video, but you also have now, this kind of behind the scenes thing that's going on that wasn't there before on Pinterest with these idea pins. Think of Instagram stories behind the scenes. And so this lady with her jewelry is taking it, and showing how she's making it, the molds for the silver and heating things up and bending it to fit and it's not glamorous, it's behind the scenes stuff, but they're killing it, because how cool is it that you see the jewelry that you are going to buy being made and how it's being made? That has a lot of people get really nostalgic about that, saying, you know in saving this video I saw how this was made. I saw she made it with her own two hands It wasn't just a machine that stamped it out. There's somebody behind this. That is really powerful now, so. Yes, you do have that. You want to have, those lifestyle shots you want to have, especially if you're doing, any sort of product, you want to see it out in the wild, but you also want to see a closeup of it. But then you also have this new kind of raw behind the scenes. Let me tell you a story and take you through the process that these idea pins are really working for people. And Pinterest is really highlighting them in the algorithm because they keep them on Pinterest. Gary Stockton: Yeah. I've I've seen a few of those. And I definitely agree. I think you've got to really show what life is like for you as a business owner. And it could be any business, really. I saw John Kapos, Chocolate Johnny. I saw him mixing up a new batch of, I think they were turtles. They were delicious. But he was having so much fun. Making up a new batch, and he was just coming out of lockdown and showing that they were getting back to work and, you really want him to succeed. So imparting what life is like for you behind the scenes. Very important. That's a great tip. Can you control who can pin to your curated boards? Jeff Sieh: So nobody can pin to your boards. Your curated boards are the ones that you create. Like I said, I had a woodworking board. I have a Twitter tips board. I have different boards that make sense for me and my business. Now, no one else can pin to those. They can go look at those boards and take pins and pin them to their board. But they can't pin anything to my account. That's your account. That's your business. That's what you do. Unless you have a group board or you're sharing it with somebody. So group boards are something that you can have different collaborations. Pinterest is devaluing those. So a lot of people aren't using those anymore because marketers, we break everything nice. We use it to destroy it. Gary Stockton: That's why we can't have nice things. Jeff Sieh: That's right. Exactly. We can't. But that being said, you can also, like I was talking about my daughter's board, you can have secret boards. And so you can, a lot of photographers will have boards with their clients. They'll pin something and say, give us ideas of what you want your shoot to look like. And they can go and collaborate inside of Pinterest. No one else can see it, but it's a way to have that group collaboration. What I've found really successful is to have just one or two people on a certain board, like Peg Fitzpatrick and I have a board called instant Instagram tips. And we pin Instagram content to that one. Just her and I, we don't let anybody else in on that board. And the cool thing is, that board ranks on Google. So if you search instant Instagram tips, we're like number three or four, I think last time I checked. So Pinterest works really good with another search engine, which is Google. So I know you've probably been searching for things before, and instead of kicking it to your content, it took you inside of Pinterest to a Pinterest board. That's how it works with Google. That's so powerful. Because people are expending a lot, I know that we are, people are expending a lot of energy on SEO and really trying to get pages to rank. But in a lot of cases, if you've just got a really well curated board that can be done, that's an investment that is going to pay off, but it's a long term investment too, an investment in Pinterest marketing. Once you get ranking on Google, it isn't something that's going to disappear overnight. And that's the thing is, it takes a while to get, it's not like Instagram, like Facebook or Facebook ads where you can just throw money behind it and boom, it's, it's out there and you're seeing some stuff. This is a long term organic play. Now, Pinterest does have Pinterest ads and that's a great way for companies to get a boost and get out there and having their content seen really quickly. It skips, jumps, it's a fast pass if you put it in a line like a Disney or something. And so it allows you to, it's not as robust as Facebook ads are, but it's getting more and more granular. So it's, if you do have a budget, I know a lot of people move some of their Facebook budget when they got hit with the iOS stuff to try out Pinterest marketing and found some success there. A lot of big brands are over there doing that. Whenever you're scrolling through the feed, if you see a promoted by, which there are a lot of them in the smart feed those are mostly by brands and you'll see their content come to the forefront. But it is, it's a long term play. And all it is really just taking that one extra step, when you're creating your blog images, if you're making an image in Canva or Easel or whatever, in Photoshop that, you just make that tall image and more people are getting accustomed to that because they're making that to put on their stories anyway. So take that content and put it to Pinterest, right? Create a board, use descriptions and some good keywords. You don't want to just, stuff your keywords and make it sound like a robot. You want to make it sound organic and add a pin description to your pin and pin that piece of content that you've created and put that in your process, continue doing that. And over time you will see some results. You'll start seeing, Oh, wow. This this Pinterest marketing thing, it's working; I keep seeing it show up in my Google analytics. The other thing is make sure if you're doing this, if you're hearing this podcast and you're like, man, this is a great idea, I want to do it. When you set up your Pinterest account, if you haven't set one up before, is that you make it a business account. Now I was, I had mine was a personal one and I was really freaked out. I was like, am I going to switch it? Am I going to lose a bunch of stuff? If you have one and you're switching it over, it's just a button you flip and then you get access to analytics. You get any access to ads, you get all this extra stuff. You won't lose anything. And if you're pinning business content and you have a personal account, you're actually breaking their terms of service. So make sure that if you are going to do this, that you do set it up as a business account, because you get a lot of extra benefit. The access to those tools that I was telling you about is a big deal. So don't be scared to do that, but yeah, set it up and get started pinning. And you'll see a lot of times when people set up and they verify their website, when they're doing the setup process, they'll see that people have already been pinning their content. They just didn't know what it was coming from. And they'll start to see those analytics and going, Oh, okay. I can see I'm already having some Pinterest marketing success! So just do it and put it to your workflow. Do not be scared to do that. If you're creating content already for Instagram stories repurpose that a lot of times when it first started, a lot of people were repurposed their Tik Tok content. The problem was as Pinterest, just Instagram has said that if we see that, that watermark of Tik Tok, they're going to devalue that in the algorithm, Pinterest has said the same thing. So download that content. Because you have that option when you create it in TikTok and get it without that watermark and then upload it to Pinterest and see how it does. Gary Stockton: Oh, yeah. That's a great suggestion. Let's talk about Social Media News Live. This show, you do this show–how long have you been doing social media news live, Jeff? Jeff Sieh: So we started at the beginning of 2021, I believe is when we started. So yeah, we're almost up to a year. So it's been a blast. And Gary, I really appreciate you always being there and all your support. It's a fun show. I really enjoy it. We get amazing guests on our show that we've, that I either meet or I've known, or they, we come in contact to who we know is an expert on some certain thing. Yeah, it's just, it's so much fun, I love it because I go and I learn something every time. And we try to pull in as much content from the audience as we can. Like we're using Ecamm right now. It's just a great way. My thing is, why do live video if you're not going to involve the audience? Otherwise just do a YouTube video. So I love trying to bring in comments as much as I can. Gary Stockton: But I think that's the thing that makes your show so different and unique. Is that you're very conscious of who people are watching and you get quite a group when you do the show; it's live 8 a.m. Pacific on Fridays, which is great because that's donut time for me. I get my social media news, live education, and it's just, it's fun to watch that. Thanks for hosting that show. It's a great show. Where can listeners find out about Manly Pinterest tips and also Social Media News Live. Yeah, manlypinteresttips.com is still there. A lot of great content on there. And there's a podcast that I haven't done for a while, but there's some really great guests on there for, 'cause you can use a lot of that evergreen content in your Pinterest marketing, so there's some still great episodes on there. You can listen to social media News Live, just socialmedianewslive.com. You can go and find past episodes because these guests, they're so good. We just have done a couple of podcasting ones. So if you're interested in starting a podcast with this new year, there's some great episodes on there. We did a Thanksgiving episode where I give a shout out to old Gary Stockton. And and that was a fun one to do. But yeah, so just, you can search it on any of your podcast players, just do a search for social media news live. We'd love for you guys to leave a rating review and let us know and show up live to the show and ask questions. That's half the fun of it. Yeah. We have a good time. Gary Stockton: Jeff, thanks so much for coming on and sharing all of this great information with us. And we'd love to have you come back on if you'd be able to come back and sharing more with us in the future. Jeff Sieh: Would love to Gary. Thank you so much for this show and all you do.